Leica M9 Special Warning

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I think that by not going with the problem publicly out Leica may face a problem with the federal trade commission has hiding this kind of information is a serious violation and nothing to lough about. I'm personally about to write a complaint if Leica won't go publicly out with the issues in the next hours.

I also saw that after Leica responded to me the M9 became unavailable in all the stores in which I saw it on stock this morning.

This is not a game and this is not funny to me as a photographer.

Best,
Gil
 
peter_n said:
+1. There's two of them in it here; the OP and Leica. The first question I asked in post #17 was about the card and its compatibility. The OP didn't respond and now it turns out that the card is not on the list. Due diligence not done. The OP knew that the camera was dodgy before the shoot but persisted with it. To use his own phrase he was in love and he disastrously allowed that to strongly influence him. I've no problem with the OP notifying the user community but for him to reject any notion of culpability for his particular situation is unacceptable. As huntjump says directly above professional users depend on reliability for their livelihood and reliability should be the very first criterion when it comes to work. The OP used a camera he knew was unreliable and he can't blame anyone else for that.

I won't go near the Leica digitals; just way too many problems. The camera costs $7K and for that kind of money I have an expectation that it will work. I have the money for the purchase, I would love to buy one so I could use my Leica glass but I can't bring myself to do it. Maybe in 2 or 3 years when they sort out the M9. It's unacceptable that Leica releases a cosmetic upgrade when the camera still doesn't work properly; it shows you where their heads are though doesn't it?
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Leica dealer approved the card with the Leica US rep over the phone (SanDisk ultra) after the SanDisk extreme failed.

The time of the shoot the camera wasn't known to be unreliable yet. Leica dealer/ rep insist it's only the one card from bad batch issue. Read before you write.

G
 
Never had problems with these cards. Did you format the card in the camera before using it?
 
Very bad news. Old film had its caveats such as poor processing or scratched film, todays digital has that kind of digital faults, difficult to troubleshoot.
Strongly advise going back to Leica for a check-up.
 
If Canon can get away with the 1D mark III flop, then Leica will stroll through this issue like a walk in the park. That says it all.
 
Double Negative said:
Smear campaign or "warning?"

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=108907
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=39034389
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/194086-special-warning-leica-m9-users.html

On each forum where you've posted this, you're a new member with no history. :rolleyes:

That's like buying a new car, putting crappy gas in it, then shouting from all the rooftops, "BMW sucks!" to anyone that'll listen.
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With the threat of the Federal Trade Commission it's pretty clear to me that the TO uses this forum (amongst other forums) to build up pressure against Leica. For what? Probably he just want's money from Leica as compensation?. Can this work? Don't know.

Too much noise for just a warning.

I'm out.
 
Sadly this is nothing new for Leica. About ten years ago I bought my only new Leica body, an M6 .85 non ttl. Since I do available light and low light work I found the rangefinder patch to be so full of flare as to be almost unusable. The camera sat on a shelf until several years ago when Sherry Krauter upgraded the finder and it is now a great camera. With all that German craftsmanship and attention to detail the product ought to be right the first time, every time. Joe
 
I promise to you that even if Leica will offer to me any money I'll just give it to you. Fair?

tom.w.bn said:
With the threat of the Federal Trade Commission it's pretty clear to me that the TO uses this forum (amongst other forums) to build up pressure against Leica. For what? Probably he just want's money from Leica as compensation?. Can this work? Don't know.

Too much noise for just a warning.

I'm out.
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I just had an issue with a SanDisk Ultra 8GB card -- some DNG files were not recognized when I tried to open them up in my computer, and two photos that I took at a family event were on the card, then they magically disappeared. Very frustrating indeed!
 
gillavi said:
You can see who i'm at: www.gillavi.com my friend.

I'm just a real photographer who decided that this is important. I'm not a bored forum member, my time costs money.

G
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Gil as a professional photographer you should know better than to host your images on Flickr. Flickr is not exactly a hosting device for professionals, and images are easily stolen.
 
Gil, sounds like your worst sin is to be a bit naive my friend. :cool: As much as i like my (too) many Leica things i never use them for my job. Not reliable enough i'm afraid.
 
Vince Lupo said:
I just had an issue with a SanDisk Ultra 8GB card -- some DNG files were not recognized when I tried to open them up in my computer, and two photos that I took at a family event were on the card, then they magically disappeared. Very frustrating indeed!
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If we all start shooting continues mode to fill the M8/M9 buffer, there will be more people reporting this problem. The problem is real and Leica needs to do something to fix the software.
 
gillavi said:
Leica dealer approved the card with the Leica US rep over the phone (SanDisk ultra) after the SanDisk extreme failed.
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I'm sorry but that's just not good enough. Due diligence means you consult a published list of compatible devices; you don't just take somebody's word for it.

If the manufacturer doesn't publish extended specs that includes things like whether a tested memory card reliably works with the camera then you shun the product. Simple as that. I believe Leica publishes such a list.

gillavi said:
The time of the shoot the camera wasn't known to be unreliable yet. Leica dealer/ rep insist it's only the one card from bad batch issue. Read before you write.
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There's no need to be personal; I did read what you wrote and I reproduce below what I read. Don't get me wrong; I reiterate that I'm very sorry that this happened to you but I do believe that you do bear some culpability in this particular circumstance which you are denying. Once again you took someone's word that it was a bad card batch, then when things went pear-shaped again you finally did some research and found out it was a known problem:

gillavi said:
I Googled to see what other people have to say about the M9 and SanDisk SD memory cards. I found many users with the exact same problems, all suffering from it with the newer versions of SanDisk cards.
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If you had done your due diligence in the first place - "it took only a few hours of taking pictures before the card crashed" - you might have avoided your problems. But in addition to taking someone's word (twice) about a compatibility issue you introduced a whole stack of new variables into your shoot: by changing the camera, changing the firmware, and changing the memory card. You would have had no idea what was going on when things went wrong. None. To remind you, me, and everyone else of the sequence, here it is again:

gillavi said:
A couple of weeks ago I got a new Leica M9. All excited, I put in the best SD card on the market, the SanDisk Extreme Pro 8GB. It took only a few hours of taking pictures before the card crashed and the camera become unresponsive until I removed the card. I wasn’t worried at the beginning. I was in love.

A few days after, I had a high profile portrait photo shoot for an important client. Of course I took the M9 and my beloved Leica 90mm with me, together with a new SanDisk SD card, not before installing the newest firmware update. It was a very long photo shoot with heavy production, a tight schedule and sweaty assistants. It was just before that end of the photo shoot that the other new SanDisk SD card Extreme crashed inside the M9, making the camera dead and the card unreadable in any device.
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I agree that Leica digital Ms are unreliable and this compounded the issue, but do you really believe that you bear no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of your shoot with the M9?
 
I had a problem with the M8 when I formatted the card outside of the camera. After formatting the cards in the camera, never had a problem with the M8 or M9. Never consulted a compatibility chart either. I delete some bad frames during a shooting sequence, but generally transfer the images well before the card is full. I format the cards in the camera when re-using.

This is basically the same procedure that I have followed using Digital cameras for 18 years, starting with 2.5" SCSI hard-drives in a Kodak DCS200, PCMCIA cards in a DC-50, Kodak DCS420, and Nikon E3, CF cards in a DC-120 and Nikon D-1 and D1-x.
 
Double Negative said:
Smear campaign or "warning?"

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=108907
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1038&message=39034389
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/194086-special-warning-leica-m9-users.html

On each forum where you've posted this, you're a new member with no history. :rolleyes:

That's like buying a new car, putting crappy gas in it, then shouting from all the rooftops, "BMW sucks!" to anyone that'll listen.
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Gabriel already did that one.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
I had a problem with the M8 when I formatted the card outside of the camera. After formatting the cards in the camera, never had a problem with the M8 or M9. Never consulted a compatibility chart either. I delete some bad frames during a shooting sequence, but generally transfer the images well before the card is full. I format the cards in the camera when re-using.

This is basically the same procedure that I have followed using Digital cameras for 18 years, starting with 2.5" SCSI hard-drives in a Kodak DCS200, PCMCIA cards in a DC-50, Kodak DCS420, and Nikon E3, CF cards in a DC-120 and Nikon D-1 and D1-x.
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Dear Brian,

Same here.

Of course, no-one wants to absolve Leica of all responsibility, but equally, I'd worry a lot more about problems that arose unexpectedly after several years' problem-free use than about problems that arose at the very beginning of a learning curve.

Cheers,

R.
 
peter_n said:
I agree that Leica digital Ms are unreliable and this compounded the issue, but do you really believe that you bear no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of your shoot with the M9?
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The OP's responsibility is to his customers who pay him to deliver pictures. Likewise, Leica's responsibility is to its customers who pay them to deliver working cameras.
 
Awhile ago I had an issue with a retailer and started an RFF thread borne of my frustration and anger. I was reminded, both gently and not so gently, that it is bad form to play out my personal drama on this forum (or any forum for that matter).

So, I'm passing along the reminder to the OP. Best to desist and take care of the matter privately with Leica/Sandisk. Then maybe do a beneficially-crafted poll to share user experience. Or something collaborative in the spirit of this fine forum.
 
steelduck said:
Here is a video of the issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVaNXbN12KI

250sw: You should do some research before accusing people of gossiping etc. This is a real issue and quite many M9 (and M8) users are having it. Leica has acknowledged the problem and is trying to find a solution with Jenopic and Sandisk.
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You are the undoubted master of rhetoric :rolleyes:

Steve
 
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