Stocks and bonds in turmoil - buy Leica glass

R

rayfoxlee

Raymondo
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There seem to be few safe havens out there at present and with gold climbing a wall of worry, it could reach bubble territory anytime soon, if it hasn't already reached that point.

I put before you the alternative possible 'safe' haven investment in an unsafe world - mint Leica lenses bought at sensible (a matter of opinion, of course) secondhand prices. At least you can re-sell later and get the pleasure of using them in the meantime! ;)

Ignoring what you already own and assuming that you have unlimited funds, what would you buy now and why - and what would you realistically pay, bearing in mind the need to at least preserve some semblance of value over the period of ownership?

On a technical point, please consider the future usability and value of lenses whose performance may not be as good on digital as lenses specifically designed for digital capture. With Leica intending to launch a interchangeable APS-C model or something similar, the market should expand for M mount lenses, but perhaps some of the older lenses may not perform that well – other members will have more experience that I have with their GF1’s etc.

I would be really interested to hear your views!

Ray
 
rayfoxlee said:
There seem to be few safe havens out there at present and with gold climbing a wall of worry, it could reach bubble territory anytime soon, if it hasn't already reached that point.

I put before you the alternative possible 'safe' haven investment in an unsafe world - mint Leica lenses bought at sensible (a matter of opinion, of course) secondhand prices. At least you can re-sell later and get the pleasure of using them in the meantime! ;)

Ignoring what you already own and assuming that you have unlimited funds, what would you buy now and why - and what would you realistically pay, bearing in mind the need to at least preserve some semblance of value over the period of ownership?

On a technical point, please consider the future usability and value of lenses whose performance may not be as good on digital as lenses specifically designed for digital capture. With Leica intending to launch a interchangeable APS-C model or something similar, the market should expand for M mount lenses, but perhaps some of the older lenses may not perform that well – other members will have more experience that I have with their GF1’s etc.

I would be really interested to hear your views!

Ray
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My view? I lost all the money I had and cannot afford to buy any glass.:p Sad but true. If I had money, I would put it in the wall safe, my version of a mattress. It used to be about worrying on the rate of return of your capital, now it's worry about the RETURN of your capital.
 
You could argue that a bubble is forming around Leica prices already. Used body prices are increasing and it's hard to find any Summicron for under $1k nowdays. Don't forget the outrageous prices people are asking for (and getting!) for the new 35mm Summilux FLE.
 
If I learned one thing from a broadway musical it's that in this days economy the most stable investment is porn. :)
 
My post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek question. If you had unlimited resources etc etc and I know that lenses can't be construed as 'investments' in the normal sense. What I was after was a view of which lenses might hold their value best, based on your view of Leica's output, both past and present. After all, isn't better to buy something that you feel is going to depreciate less/hold its' value more?

Any answers??

Ray
 
rayfoxlee said:
My post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek question. If you had unlimited resources etc etc and I know that lenses can't be construed as 'investments' in the normal sense. What I was after was a view of which lenses might hold their value best, based on your view of Leica's output, both past and present. After all, isn't better to buy something that you feel is going to depreciate less/hold its' value more?

Any answers??

Ray
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Yep, thought it was!:p I know of people who invest a good portion of their available cash into collector cars. Works for them and they get more enjoyment out of it than looking at a bank statement.

IMO, you could have done well with any of the Lux lenses made by Leica before the prices went so high. Who knows, maybe they will continue and the ROI will still be quite good.:)
 
Buy the Voigtlander Nokton F1.1

When it is discontinued, prices will go past $2K.

My pair of Canon 50mm F0.95's were $200 each about 6 years ago.
 
Another voice for gold -- but keep it under the mattress!

Apart from that, what do I invest in? Me! If I can use my time to do something that (a) I enjoy and (b) should make some money, then within reason, I'll buy the tools to help me do it. I'll even buy legitimate copies of software... Even Adobe! (But I'll complain like hell about it. If they don't trust me, why should I trust them?)

Cheers,

R.
 
Having pulled ALL funds from the market two weeks ago... I tried convincing the wife to do just that last night -buy Leica glass!

In turn, she suggested I sell!
 
Ever wonder the price of all the film M RF will cost when the film discontinued?(assume tat such a day happened)
 
rayfoxlee said:
My post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek question. If you had unlimited resources etc etc and I know that lenses can't be construed as 'investments' in the normal sense. What I was after was a view of which lenses might hold their value best, based on your view of Leica's output, both past and present. After all, isn't better to buy something that you feel is going to depreciate less/hold its' value more?

Any answers??

Ray
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Even gold is not safe. In the mid thirties FDR as President passed a law where private ownership of gold was illegal, and gold was confiscated here in the U.S.

Currently laws have been passed where 1099's will be attached to gold trading in the next few years (2012???) so capitol gains taxes will be paid, but the tracking of ownership of bullion is my biggest concern because of another round of possible confiscation. Pretty easy to do once tracking is provided to the government. Perhaps this is why George Soros sold off his stockpile of gold. (No one ever got rich by paying taxes.)

Basically Pre-1933 gold coins are a possible loophole because of previous exclusion. Could be a clever move because coins bypass exchanges and are impossible to contol. I expect a huge premium to evolve because of this unstoppable black market.

DISCLAIMER: I bought gold coins in Febuary 2008, and at the height of the credit crisis I bought my Wetzlar M6, 35 Cron V.4 and 75 Lux V2 for very little money. To me that was the time to load up on "hard assets" to store wealth. BTW prior to the credit crisis I was just a Nikon SLR shooter so I'm kinda new to Leica.

Cal
 
And who is the say that the bubble in Leica's prices won't pop?

when a "Bokeh King" is fetching over $2k, you start to think how long can this last and how much more will prices rise?
 
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The point about 'bubble' prices raises some interesting issues, as more makers develop modules on camera models for M mount lenses. If CV steps up to the plate with lenses specifically for a wider range of APS-C units, then Leica may have a bit more competition on its' hands. After all, why pay full frame prices if you can get much reduced cost on good quality optics designed specifically for the task?

Ray
 
PatrickONeill said:
And who is the say that the bubble in Leica's prices won't pop?
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It could. However, there is more demand than product and while that is still the case, lenses will continue to go up. Even if the bubble pops, these lenses are always relatively expensive historically speaking.
 
rayfoxlee said:
The point about 'bubble' prices raises some interesting issues, as more makers develop modules on camera models for M mount lenses. If CV steps up to the plate with lenses specifically for a wider range of APS-C units, then Leica may have a bit more competition on its' hands. After all, why pay full frame prices if you can get much reduced cost on good quality optics designed specifically for the task?

Ray
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Well, in all fairness... most of the lenses on the markert are capable. People don't generally buy leica stuff when looking for value. CV has already made cheap M lenses and that hasn't stopped anyone from still buying Leica.
 
rayfoxlee said:
The point about 'bubble' prices raises some interesting issues, as more makers develop modules on camera models for M mount lenses. If CV steps up to the plate with lenses specifically for a wider range of APS-C units, then Leica may have a bit more competition on its' hands. After all, why pay full frame prices if you can get much reduced cost on good quality optics designed specifically for the task?

Ray
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Ray,

I'm not sure I agree with you because to me Leica is a premium/luxury product.

Buying a Rolex watch has a big premium and is clearly a luxury good with an inflated percieved value, but can be looked upon as being a hard asset, meaning it will maintain value or appreciate in value. A Rolex Submarinar I bought new in 2004 is worth a lot more than I paid for it regardless that there are many cheaper watches trying to steal market share, and even though now it is a used watch.

I own some CV glass that I bought new, but it has not appreciated like a hard asset the way Leica glass has.

Cal
 
Bread and butter lenses like summicrons and summilux will always get the money.
M6 seem to have risen, maybe due to having a meter. The M9 opens peoples eyes to Leica that have never considered them before however the price puts them off so an M6 looks like the next best thing. ie it's still 'new' user friendly with the meter but without a silly price tag.
Buying as an investment? Personally I wouldn't bother. Far better to buy what you like to use or experiment with and then maybe if you are lucky, make a little so that you can try something else.
This was how I've ended up with most of my gear.
Don't forget that you never actually make anything if you don't end up selling because you like using said camera or lens. Unless of course you buy 2 or 3 copies.
I only sell to buy something else now. Sold a 'lux a few weeks ago to buy an F5, an F100 and a service for my wife's watch! Used the change to buy a 35 R 'cron this week, mainly because it was a later copy than the one I have and so it goes on.....
 
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