The M10 and its guts..

The M10 and its guts..

  • Kodak CCD

    Votes: 159 37.3%

  • Japanese CMOS (canon/sony)

    Votes: 142 33.3%

  • Foveon X3 (sigma/kodak)

    Votes: 109 25.6%

  • Japanese Nikon/Sony

    Votes: 16 3.8%
  • Total voters
    426
hxpham make a good point... take a look at the insane amount of dynamic range on the k5 here...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=955995

if you did this kind of thing with the sensor in the 5d2 the resulting photo would look awful beyond reason.

this just goes to show you that we aren't even close to the end of sensor technology advancements. in addition, I just learned kodak has a 29 megapixel ccd as well in the works.

nikon certainly massages the raw files with in camera software and maybe canon does as well, but there is a significant difference between the canon 10d sensor and 5d2 sensor, and this is over the span of what 5 or 6 years in technology?

one last thing to look at quickly if you have the time... is the dxo test on the k5 sensor, which is a crop sensor by the way. it has more dynamic range than nikon's $9,000 flagship camera. as a side note I hate dxo test and the like because they are often deceiving especially for any kind of "real world use" the leica m8 has a more usable range than the 5d2 in my opinion, but by only looking at their tests many people wouldn't know that.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Pu...010-who-takes-the-lead/Dynamic-Range-K5-rules!

jaapv said:
Numbers? What is your source?
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DXO is rubbish. I wouldn't trust 1 line from DXO's website.

Have a look at the lens reviews. They rate the Zeiss 21mm distagon for EOS the lowest resolving lens they tested for canon DSLRs (it's actually one of the very best lenses available). They also rate the other Zeiss for canon lenses badly. Now I've personally owned the Zeiss ZE lenses and they're superb - you can cross check that with other review sites across the web.

There's so many things that they list that are false the whole dxomark thing is just ridiculous. I wouldn't be basing my opinions on cameras off their data.
 
I vote Foveon on this one. Can you imagine the elitism and sheer snobbery that would come along with that combo? "oh, you use cameras whose images can be processed by standard photo programs? That's nice, mine can only be processed by a single program and the colors are better than your colors and the pictures can't be anything but amazing because it's a Leica." lol. It would be a fun if not incredibly frustrating experience from time to time. I actually had purchased the SD1 with the idea on popping a Leica R adapter onto it and using R glass in hopes of the glass being able to keep up with the sensor, but I sent it back in less than a week because it just did not get the job done at all. Oh Lordy I wanted to cry, it was just frustrating! So I got an M9 instead. Worked out so much better. I think once Sigma works out its issues with Foveon sensors, it would match M glass really happily.
 
I doubt that a Foveon style sensor could be made to work with a rangefinder camera because of the short "film to flange" distance. And- there is no full-frame version of the Foveon sensor.

I'd rather see a Monochrome sensor offered as an option.
 
A full frame Foveon would be awesome, but how expensive would that be? 7k for the ApsC size isn't very friendly. Monochrome sensor would be nice. I shoot my M in Raw + Jpg b&w and convert all my pics to mono. I get a little disturbed when I see my images in color honestly, makes me think I didn't get the settings right.
 
A Monochrome sensor picks up twice as much light as any color sensor. And no dye layer to worry about.
 
fdigital said:
DXO is rubbish. I wouldn't trust 1 line from DXO's website.

Have a look at the lens reviews. They rate the Zeiss 21mm distagon for EOS the lowest resolving lens they tested for canon DSLRs (it's actually one of the very best lenses available). They also rate the other Zeiss for canon lenses badly. Now I've personally owned the Zeiss ZE lenses and they're superb - you can cross check that with other review sites across the web.

There's so many things that they list that are false the whole dxomark thing is just ridiculous. I wouldn't be basing my opinions on cameras off their data.
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And they do not test sensor output as they claim, they test camera output, including all firmware corrections to the file....
 
They call it the MD, it has the cloth m shutter, an upgraded kodak sensor with better iso and dr, can't see it happening for a few years yet though; M9's good enough. Look forward more to the X2.
 
For those suggesting an updated Kodak CCD, how is Kodak's financial health? There were rumors that Leica might look for a new sensor partner due to concerns over Kodak's ability to deliver into the future.
 
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Okay, fdigital ,how about this? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guillermoluijk.com%2Farticle%2Fsnr%2Findex.htm&langpair=es|en&hl=EN&ie=UTF-8
Too long; didn't read -- The K5/D7000 sensor is practically ISO-less. You get almost the same results shooting a severely underexposed ISO 100 image and brightening it in RAW processing as you do shooting a well exposed ISO 1600 image.
 
hxpham said:
Okay, fdigital ,how about this? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guillermoluijk.com%2Farticle%2Fsnr%2Findex.htm&langpair=es|en&hl=EN&ie=UTF-8
Too long; didn't read -- The K5/D7000 sensor is practically ISO-less. You get almost the same results shooting a severely underexposed ISO 100 image and brightening it in RAW processing as you do shooting a well exposed ISO 1600 image.
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Yeah damn cool, pity Pentax K5 colors are wack... I'd like to see what they can do with a new full frame sensor.
 
I'll take the M10 with something similar to the Nikon D3 sensor, with no Bayer filter. I just want black and white with high iso capability.

I tried the M9, and its not for me. I'll take film grain and high contrast for my low light shots at this point.
 
5105708644_10c1ffe561.jpg
 
I'd say either a Kodak sensor or Canikon. There really is no better color fidelity obtained when using a CCD. As to the Foveon, I still chuckle when I hear about color fidelity from Sigmas. Let's get one thing clear....the Foveon has the WORST color going. Period. Check an iso 800 or 1600 image from the SD1 and come back and tell us about color. It's a joke. If Leica went Foveon (and I don't think they're that stupid), I wouldn't touch anything from Leica again.

And Animefx, the M8 does not have great dynamic range. In fact, it's rather mediocre. Today's CMOS sensor wipe the floor with these old CCD chips that are ridulled with noise and weak DR. Cameras like the Pentax K5, Nikon D700, Nikon D7000, Nikon D3x, etc, etc, leave the M8 way behind in noise and DR.

We don't need CCD. We definitely don't need the poor color and horrendous aliasing and oversharpend look of Foveon.
 
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Have a look at some of these sd1 photographs in the links below (full size images so are BIG) and try to tell me the foveon has the worst color...

1

2

3

4

5

6
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Hmmm no one has anything to say about these? Current technical issues aside, I'd love to see this sort of low ISO IQ from a leica digital body!
 
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I'm sorry, but to my eyes the color of these examples is not even close to the colors obtainable with a good CCD sensor. Quite apart from the fact that a Foveon has too small an acceptance angle, this would not be what I am looking for in my M.
 
Anything that would give decent image quality but allow them to sell the camera for $3-4K.

It's so ironic that wealthy amateurs can afford the current M9 but very few professionals can.

I said it was ironic, not making any judgment beyond that.
 
Pablito said:
It's so ironic that wealthy amateurs can afford the current M9 but very few professionals can.

I said it was ironic, not making any judgment beyond that.
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The wealthy can always afford what they want. Others (e.g., me) need to affix prices on need and want. Even so, lots of pros would not want to use an M9 even if it were cheaper.
 
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