Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Recently I decided to get back to the darkroom. I have always enjoyed darkroom work -- it is an oasis of zen for me. My first step was to join the Genesee Community Darkroom again as I am not in a position to build a proper darkroom in my house. Primarily I'm now just processing film, both 35mm & 4x5.
Down the road I will be assembling a stack of negatives to be printed. Having not printed for decades, the papers I formerly used are either gone or reformulated, so I need to make some new choices and would appreciate input and options. Here are my biases and bottom line requirements:
Down the road I will be assembling a stack of negatives to be printed. Having not printed for decades, the papers I formerly used are either gone or reformulated, so I need to make some new choices and would appreciate input and options. Here are my biases and bottom line requirements:
- I will only use fibre paper. I don't care how good RC paper has gotten, I just don't like it, especially the feel. You may feel strongly otherwise, but don't bother trying to convince me!
- I will be using a cold light head. Again, arguments about using a condenser head (or even point source!) are "unnecessary". I have calibrated my exposure and development to cold light.
- I have mostly used graded paper in the past. I control the processing of my film to the point that usually I can print on grade 2, and infrequently need for grade 1 or 3. I do know that multi-grade paper has come a long way, so I'm cool with a variable contrast paper, but I would need to be able to use it easily with a cold light enlarger; so I tips here are appreciated.
- My reference paper when I was printing was Zone VI Brilliant. I used Weston's Amidol as a developer, and got gorgeous, deep blacks and low value separation. This is what I'm after. Call it museum, exhibition, or fine-art printing ... that's my objective. Yes, there will be images that require a different look; that I will deal with as the need arises.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I don't have much experience with FB paper, but I've been very happy with Ilford Multigrade. Particularly the Warmtone version. It's worth checking out at the very least.
newsgrunt
Well-known
God I've been looking for a suitable replacement for graded Brilliant since the company in France stopped producing the paper. Settling on Kentmere graded but it's hard to find in stock at most places.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
This is sort of what I'm afraid of. I'm resigned to ordering online -- Not that that's a bad thing, but it means planning ahead and stocking up, and hoping that you don't get caught short or open up a box that is a bad batch. Here in Kodaville you can't easily buy any decent paper off a shelf ... in ROCHESTER, NY, you can't easily buy silver-gelatin paper.
I have read interesting things about Ilford MG Art but have yet to see any samples or read much from people who have used it extensively.
I'll take a look at the Kentmere, too.
Mablo
Well-known
I'm a printer newbie myself but split printing seems to me like a very logical step when using multigrade papers. It's WYSIWYG for your tones. Of course, you still need to dodge and burn.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Lately, I've been using and liking Ilford's MGIV Multigrade FB Matt Paper (the paper with the green label)
I get great blacks and nice clean whites just using their Warmtone Developer...
The finish is smooth and it presents itself very well when framed and hung up for display...
I get great blacks and nice clean whites just using their Warmtone Developer...
The finish is smooth and it presents itself very well when framed and hung up for display...
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I'd suggest looking at the Adox MCC and the Adox Variotone. I find that both of these papers are among the very best I've ever used. I too used Brilliant years ago, and was very reluctant to change to VC paper. I've not tried either of these in Amidol, but was a big fan of Seagull G and Agfa Record/Insignia in Amidol; I find I like these two papers even more. I'm currently using Moersch 4812 or Blue on them. There is also a graded version of the Adox (Nuance) which I've not used, but knowing these new Adox papers I would suspect it is magnificent. I've not felt any desire to return to graded paper.
I prefer the Variotone as it really does live up to it's name and responds very well to changes in developer. Toners as well. Pricier than some, but so was Brilliant.
I prefer the Variotone as it really does live up to it's name and responds very well to changes in developer. Toners as well. Pricier than some, but so was Brilliant.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Robert: Thanks for the suggestion, which is especially valuable since you've used Amidol in the past and know its properties. I'm not wedded to Amidol, and am open to other developers, so will check out the Moersch chemistries as well.
And FWIW, I know I could go over to APUG and ask the same questions, but I think the responses would overwhelm me!
And FWIW, I know I could go over to APUG and ask the same questions, but I think the responses would overwhelm me!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Your quite welcome. Hopefully you'll manage a few days to play and do some testing of a few papers and developers to hone in on the look you're after.
Folks often balk at the prices of the Moersch developers but his claims as to capacity and keeping properties are 100% true in my experience. I couldn't believe it so tested it- and yes a gallon jug of the 4812 working solution was still good three months later. And it was just a cheap plastic spring water jug I used to store it. I don't know how he does it.
Folks often balk at the prices of the Moersch developers but his claims as to capacity and keeping properties are 100% true in my experience. I couldn't believe it so tested it- and yes a gallon jug of the 4812 working solution was still good three months later. And it was just a cheap plastic spring water jug I used to store it. I don't know how he does it.
Mackinaw
Think Different
I've been very impressed by the Adox fiber paper. Great whites and nice, inky blacks.
Jim B.
Jim B.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Jim: Another vote for Adox ... I was not anticipating such love for Adox so quickly. Not that it's surprising; I guess I thought of it as less widely used than the big names.
Robert: I was just on the Moersch site and was shocked when I read the keeping properties of the various chemistries. Especially the Amidol ... Weston's Amidol degrades really fast, so Moersch's times for Amidol were amazing.
Not that it's surprising; I guess I thought of it as less widely used than the big names.Robert: I was just on the Moersch site and was shocked when I read the keeping properties of the various chemistries. Especially the Amidol ... Weston's Amidol degrades really fast, so Moersch's times for Amidol were amazing.
monochromejrnl
Well-known
Why not buy some samples that you can source locally and find out first hand what type of paper suits you best. It's quite a personal choice and at least from personal experience, the paper choice will largely depends on the image I'm printing.
Alternatively, if you have a favourite 'vintage' paper feel free to identify it and what you liked about it and perhaps some of the more experienced printers will be able to suggest a 'modern'/available substitute.
Alternatively, if you have a favourite 'vintage' paper feel free to identify it and what you liked about it and perhaps some of the more experienced printers will be able to suggest a 'modern'/available substitute.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I've no experience with Wolfgang's Amidol, but the 4812 really does keep like he says. I'd certainly believe him.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
I largely gave up using graded papers when virtually every company stopped making the grade 0 and 1 papers. So much for the really long tonal ranges they gave. I've switched over to multigrade papers and I'm quite pleased with the prints I get. They've come a long way. Of course you are right about RC papers- they've improved in the last 20 years, but they are still inferior to fiber paper.
Anyway, my favorites these days are Oriental, Adox, and Bergger papers. And while I haven't tried it yet, I've heard nothing but good about the Ilford Art 300. I'm waiting on the first box to arrive in the mail- I'm looking forward to seeing first hand how it looks.
For developer, I use Ethol LPD. I was converted to this developer after taking a class from master printer Jim Megargee, who has used it for years. It has two main advantages, the first being VERY long usable life. You can keep using the same batch almost indefinitely. At the end of a print session, you dump half to a third of the solution (depending on how dark it has become) and at the beginning of the next print session, you simply re-use the old and make up the volume with new developer at the same dilution. At higher dilutions, you can get literally hundreds of 8x10 prints out of a gallon of full strength developer. The second cool thing about LPD is that you can control the color tone with any papers just by changing the dilution. Use it straight for cool tones, dilute it 1:1 or 1:2 for neutral tones, or dilute it up to 1:5 for increasingly warmer tones. Sounds weird, but it really works nicely. It's great for tweaking the tone of any paper a little or a lot in either direction. I give three minutes in the developer and get very nice deep blacks, too. I use many film developers and lots of papers, but LPD is my only paper developer now.
Anyway, enjoy your return the darkroom!
Anyway, my favorites these days are Oriental, Adox, and Bergger papers. And while I haven't tried it yet, I've heard nothing but good about the Ilford Art 300. I'm waiting on the first box to arrive in the mail- I'm looking forward to seeing first hand how it looks.
For developer, I use Ethol LPD. I was converted to this developer after taking a class from master printer Jim Megargee, who has used it for years. It has two main advantages, the first being VERY long usable life. You can keep using the same batch almost indefinitely. At the end of a print session, you dump half to a third of the solution (depending on how dark it has become) and at the beginning of the next print session, you simply re-use the old and make up the volume with new developer at the same dilution. At higher dilutions, you can get literally hundreds of 8x10 prints out of a gallon of full strength developer. The second cool thing about LPD is that you can control the color tone with any papers just by changing the dilution. Use it straight for cool tones, dilute it 1:1 or 1:2 for neutral tones, or dilute it up to 1:5 for increasingly warmer tones. Sounds weird, but it really works nicely. It's great for tweaking the tone of any paper a little or a lot in either direction. I give three minutes in the developer and get very nice deep blacks, too. I use many film developers and lots of papers, but LPD is my only paper developer now.
Anyway, enjoy your return the darkroom!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I've seen samples of the Ilford Art 300, it is a very close surface to the old FOMA 532. It is certainly different than Brilliant- looks more like a matte Inkjet Paper than a fiber print. The new 532 has something more like an old matte Velox surface to it. There is a lot more sheen in the V2 than the V1.
Once I've used up my 532 I'm going to get some of this 300. I use Ilford Multigrade fiber for all my initial prints, and it is quite a capable emulsion if not terribly responsive to developer changes and toning. It's the surface of the 300 that I don't think can be beat when I want a matte print.
Only complaint I've heard that seems like it might be bothersome is that it floats a lot.
Once I've used up my 532 I'm going to get some of this 300. I use Ilford Multigrade fiber for all my initial prints, and it is quite a capable emulsion if not terribly responsive to developer changes and toning. It's the surface of the 300 that I don't think can be beat when I want a matte print.
Only complaint I've heard that seems like it might be bothersome is that it floats a lot.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Agreed. Print color of the Seagull VC in Dektol is pretty similar to Brilliant in Dektol. And both Seagull and the Adox have a nice and bright white base.
There is apparently someone importing it- This thread on apug lists a source. I used the silk (?) finish Slavich for one project- reminded me of an Agfa surface from the early 80's I used once. Toned quite easily.
topoxforddoc
Established
I'm another fan of Adox MCC. Personally I prefer MCC to Variotone or Ilford MG FB. I develop mine mostly in Agfa Neutol WA.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Interesting on the Oriental and MCC ... I prefer neutral tones and the bright white base that was typical of Brilliant. The LPD is intriguing since tone can be varied with one developer.
One issue with the Ilford 300 is that the surface is not conducive to scanning. It's minor, but worth considering.
As to surface, I am used to glossy dried matte, i.e., dried face down on fibreglass screens. I'm open to other surfaces, though probably not highly matte surfaces.
One issue with the Ilford 300 is that the surface is not conducive to scanning. It's minor, but worth considering.
As to surface, I am used to glossy dried matte, i.e., dried face down on fibreglass screens. I'm open to other surfaces, though probably not highly matte surfaces.
KenR
Well-known
I never seemed to have the grades that I needed when I used graded paper, so I have been using Multigrade IV FB for many years. Reasonably neutral tone, cools off with selenium toner. Available within 2 days from B&H.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Tonality of the Variotone can be quite neutral, and the MCC can get warm with development- tho the Seagull VC may the most neutral of the three. For getting that oomph that Brilliant had I'd say one of the Adox papers may be the easiest.