Am I stupid for thinking about XPro 1?

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hausen

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I have an M9 and series of M & LTM lenses that I use with it and my M6. My dilemma is a friend of mine who has had virtually all Leica M's and LTM bodies and lenses has been at me recently to exit my M9 this year before my warranty runs out. (Think I have 8 months or so left) He sold his and his users now are M8 + MP. Currently am on waiting list for a 50 Summicron and wonder if I should cancel that and put that money towards Xpro 1?
The Xpro 1 intrigues me because I have had numerous Fujis and have always loved their lenses. Think I always have that fear that I could be one of the M9 owners who gets a cracked sensor a month after my warranty runs out. But on the other hand M9 is everything I ever wanted in a digital camera but the money invested in it is significant. Head says sell and heart says I will regret it. Also know that Manual/Zone focus will be problematic with the Fuji and is an issue I will have to deal with.
Fully understand that I haven't held the Xpro 1 yet but I have the X100 and it stuns me every time I use it, and would use it more but I am a 50mm guy mainly not 35mm. Sorry for rambling in advance.
 
the x100 was intended to be an AF camera; no thought, obviously, was given to MF. but the images are extraordinary.

jump to xpro. images will be even better. and camera is intended to be 'pro' tool, and not just AF. i imagine MF with legacy lenses will have aids that will put the experience on par with other systems, like sony etc. so manual focusing will not be an issue, and should be quite good.

jump to M9. image quality will probably either be worse or not be noticeably better than xpro. so the only two reasons to keep it are lack of crop factor and 'rangefinder' experience. the decision is if these 'benefits' are enough to outwiegh the financial risk involved in keepnig it.
 
I think you've got two assumptions that might need questioning:

1. That the M9 has a disproportionate risk of failure and it will be too expensive to repair
2. That the Fuji has much less risk of failure and it will be inexpensive to repair

We always fear the loss of what we love/like, don't we? In this case, maybe extend the warranty or insure your M9.
 
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"Am I stupid for thinking about XPro 1?"

If ya have to ask, yes. No one knows what the Fuji will be like yet. I watched an Aystralian video of some photographers shooting with it on a sheep farm. I read a review, Thorsten Overgaard, i believe. He said the AF was no better then the X100. For a cropped sensor camera, I find it big.
 
I played with X100 shortly once. while the OVF is good, it's far from impressive. I won't give up real RF to a EVF. Never.
 
I happen to like my X100 quite a bit, and while I'd rather have a digital equivalent to my film M's, I simply can't justify the cost. Even if I could, I would be afraid to take it anywhere for fear of anything happening to my $7k+ investment. But all of that is neither here nor there.

About the X-Pro 1...I'd say that it is rather large for a crop sensor, and the AF on the X100 is far from perfect (though not as dodgy as many make it out to be). I think the cost is a bit off on the X-Pro 1 (as in overpriced), but you can sell your M9 body and pick up the X-Pro 1 and all the lenses available at launch and have a few thousand $ left for the bank. I'd say that's not bad.

In the end it's a personal preference. Depends on your budget and how much having a real RF is worth to you. Maybe just sell it all and shoot film :p (I had to be a bit cheeky!)
 
hausen said:
I have an M9 and series of M & LTM lenses that I use with it and my M6. My dilemma is a friend of mine who has had virtually all Leica M's and LTM bodies and lenses has been at me recently to exit my M9 this year before my warranty runs out. (Think I have 8 months or so left) He sold his and his users now are M8 + MP. Currently am on waiting list for a 50 Summicron and wonder if I should cancel that and put that money towards Xpro 1?

The Xpro 1 intrigues me because I have had numerous Fujis and have always loved their lenses. Think I always have that fear that I could be one of the M9 owners who gets a cracked sensor a month after my warranty runs out. But on the other hand M9 is everything I ever wanted in a digital camera but the money invested in it is significant. Head says sell and heart says I will regret it. Also know that Manual/Zone focus will be problematic with the Fuji and is an issue I will have to deal with.

Fully understand that I haven't held the Xpro 1 yet but I have the X100 and it stuns me every time I use it, and would use it more but I am a 50mm guy mainly not 35mm. Sorry for rambling in advance.
Click to expand...

Whenever I read these kinds of posts, it strikes me that the person with such questions in their mind probably isn't really exploiting what a Leica M9 offers as different from other cameras anyway, so the question becomes moot. The camera as a bunch of specifications and performance indicators is rather different from the camera in its use intent and working methodology.

The Fuji and most other cameras that are 35mm derivatives in look and feel get sold on their features. The Leica is sold on its lenses and lack of features. To me, I see the Leica M9 as being the bottom rung of medium format/technical camera equipment, not the nee plus ultra of 35mm equipment. If I wanted the ultimate in modern 35mm derivative equipment, I'd be salivating for a D800 most likely. The M9 just suits me better, having less to distract me in features and concentrating more on the core qualities of the lenses it takes and the simple controls it offers.

So if a year and some from now when the warranty runs out and my sensor cracks, what will I say? Likely "Oh Cr@p, that's gonna cost me some!" And then I'll have it repaired and keep on shooting. Because I bought the Leica M9 after long and due consideration, and I intend to be exploiting what it does that nothing else does the same way to the fullest extent I can. Yeah yeah, more pixels, more sensitivity, autofocus, movie capture, etc etc ... so what? This is the camera (these are the cameras) I decided I wanted, these are the lenses I decided were right for my photography.

I'm done with buying gear until my photography changes such that I actually need something different once more. I don't know that that's going to happen in a year, or five years, or ever. I'll find out. ;-)
 
David, sounds like your biggest concern is risk of loosing what you invested in the M9. You must have thought about this when buying the camera. Also, you can extend the warranty, once it runs out (290 EUR ?).

If, on the other hand, it's not so much about money, maybe you can keep the M9, try the Xpro1, and sell the M9 when your are sure about it ?

X100 + Summicron = Xpro-1 + 35/1.4 (money-wise, anyways)

Roland.
 
Wow, what a world we live in when we need to sell a camera before the warranty expires. :eek:

On to the question. I say keep the M9 and the lenses you have been using and get a X-Pro1 in addition to the M9. If you like the Fuji enough, then sell the M9. If you don't like the Fuji, sell it and then buy the Summicron.

That said, it sounds like you may be one of those users that constantly stresses that you spent $7000 on a camera. Are you afraid to use it and bring it with you because you spent so much? Then I say sell it. (The aforementioned was not a judgement... I can relate).
 
I would say if your work would benefit from the increased signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range of the XP-1, then make the change.

There is a chance the XP1 M adapter will be well implemented and the sensor will perform properly with M optics.

It's not like you won't be able to but another M9 if you really miss it.
 
Thanks everyone for responses. Never really been one to worry about money or think with my head but 3 weeks ago my business partner got diagnosed with terminal bowel/liver cancer so last 3 weeks have involved a little reflection on keeping business going and buying him out of the commercial property we own together. Has some financial implications for me because we are a success fee driven business.
Decided to just shoot digital for awhile with M9 and not film and wet printing so I can concentrate on business. My friend who can be a 'know it all" has been at me to exit M9 so I thought I would ask what you all think?
I too often get annoyed with these type of posts because the answer is generally unique to the enquirer but it meant enough to see responses so am willing to take a little abuse:) Also I bought M8 just before the initial hysteria started for the M9 lost a little money on that when I upgraded and still get a little abuse from my wife.
 
Godrey,

That makes so much sense, even I can understand it!

Seriously, that is one of the most well-reasoned responses I've ever read to a query about someone's angst about an equipment choice. And please understand, I'm not making fun of anyone asking similar questions. I've been there myself, and I've come close to an understanding similar to that you've just stated, albeit with different gear.

I'm saving your response and will refer to it whenever I begin to have doubts about equipment or lust (GAS) for something else.

Thank you.

Godfrey said:
Whenever I read these kinds of posts, it strikes me that the person with such questions in their mind probably isn't really exploiting what a Leica M9 offers as different from other cameras anyway, so the question becomes moot. The camera as a bunch of specifications and performance indicators is rather different from the camera in its use intent and working methodology.

The Fuji and most other cameras that are 35mm derivatives in look and feel get sold on their features. The Leica is sold on its lenses and lack of features. To me, I see the Leica M9 as being the bottom rung of medium format/technical camera equipment, not the nee plus ultra of 35mm equipment. If I wanted the ultimate in modern 35mm derivative equipment, I'd be salivating for a D800 most likely. The M9 just suits me better, having less to distract me in features and concentrating more on the core qualities of the lenses it takes and the simple controls it offers.

So if a year and some from now when the warranty runs out and my sensor cracks, what will I say? Likely "Oh Cr@p, that's gonna cost me some!" And then I'll have it repaired and keep on shooting. Because I bought the Leica M9 after long and due consideration, and I intend to be exploiting what it does that nothing else does the same way to the fullest extent I can. Yeah yeah, more pixels, more sensitivity, autofocus, movie capture, etc etc ... so what? This is the camera (these are the cameras) I decided I wanted, these are the lenses I decided were right for my photography.

I'm done with buying gear until my photography changes such that I actually need something different once more. I don't know that that's going to happen in a year, or five years, or ever. I'll find out. ;-)
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Hausen,

You have two Leicas. If you enjoy the rangefinder experience, but are unsure of the M9 for whatever reasons, keep the M6 and sell the M9. You have all the best qualities that drew you to Leica in the M6. Use it to augment your digital approach with film, to get that unique film quality.

You have the X100, so you have an idea of the base level quality you're going to get from the x-pro1. What makes the Leica look unique is the glass. You have the glass. Fuji will release an adapter, so you can use it with the Fuji. You will no doubt buy some Fuji glass too, which in at least some of the varieties and photos, looks pretty great. You'll also have AF, if you want it. You could sell that M9 now, before your warranty expires and before the M10 releases, and get a mint for it. They're releasing more lenses in the future as well, so you're covered there. And if you don't privilege the smaller form and somewhat quieter characteristics of the x100, you could sell that as well. That's a lot of money to have left over just by selling a very expensive and outdated body/sensor.

As I reason this out, it makes a lot of sense to me to get rid of it. Someone else will love it, you'll still have a Leica for that Leica experience and feel, you'll still have all that precious glass, you can still use it on a digital - one that likely produces at least somewhat sharper, less noisy images, if not with greater depth - and you will have another set of (probably excellent) lenses made specifically for the camera, and autofocus. Also, it's a pretty good looking camera. I can't see where you'd go wrong.
 
RealXenuis said:
Hausen,

You have two Leicas. If you enjoy the rangefinder experience, but are unsure of the M9 for whatever reasons, keep the M6 and sell the M9. You have all the best qualities that drew you to Leica in the M6. Use it to augment your digital approach with film, to get that unique film quality.

You have the X100, so you have an idea of the base level quality you're going to get from the x-pro1. What makes the Leica look unique is the glass. You have the glass. Fuji will release an adapter, so you can use it with the Fuji. You will no doubt buy some Fuji glass too, which in at least some of the varieties and photos, looks pretty great. You'll also have AF, if you want it. You could sell that M9 now, before your warranty expires and before the M10 releases, and get a mint for it. They're releasing more lenses in the future as well, so you're covered there. And if you don't privilege the smaller form and somewhat quieter characteristics of the x100, you could sell that as well. That's a lot of money to have left over just by selling a very expensive and outdated body/sensor.

As I reason this out, it makes a lot of sense to me to get rid of it. Someone else will love it, you'll still have a Leica for that Leica experience and feel, you'll still have all that precious glass, you can still use it on a digital - one that likely produces at least somewhat sharper, less noisy images, if not with greater depth - and you will have another set of (probably excellent) lenses made specifically for the camera, and autofocus. Also, it's a pretty good looking camera. I can't see where you'd go wrong.
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I second the logic of this approach. In the worst case scenario, you can switch back and likely to be no worse off financially as the M9 will undergo a steeper devaluation during your evaluation period - if only because there is a greater amount of cash invested in it.

In fact - sell the M9 asap - I'm going to wait until the M10 is released before I get my M9 - hopefully in a year, I'll be able to pick it up for sub $3.5K
 
hausen said:
Think I always have that fear that I could be one of the M9 owners who gets a cracked sensor a month after my warranty runs out.
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely, were did you get that idea from? Leica have been repairing fundamental faults (not accident or use related) for free on the M8 well after the warranty period. I can't see why that should change. And if timidity is driving your GAS, you know what the answer it, it can only get worse! Already there is every possibility that on a drawing board somewhere in the world is a camera system that will make the X Pro1 look punny. You will never win, the days are gone that you can look forward to superiority of any technology for very long. So if your M9 makes good pictures now it won't stop doing that when the XPro 1 is released, but if it doesn't then change it, just don't expect the glow to last very long.

Steve
 
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