dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I saw the recent posts in the "Post your 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE Photos" thread and then I thought "That lens costs $5,000 USD IF you can get one?!?!?" which of course led to "If you put that on an M9 ($7,000) or an M9-P ($8,000) that's a $13,000 kit ?!?!?!?"
After I picked my jaw up off of the floor I then wondered - for those that actually own this "newer" Leica M gear; how the heck do you afford it?
I'm not asking for annual income statements, 401K's, stock portfolios or even to know what you do for a living but just how do you find that much money laying around to afford the opulence?
I think most folks, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, come by their Leica gear second hand. Is it possible that FLE lenses are showing up at deeply discounted prices on the used market?
And while I may be a bit "tongue in cheek" about the whole thing, I am quite sincere - do you curb various other wants/needs in order to afford such things? (and I guess that can go for anyone else that buys Leica M gear because it seems the used prices have sky rocketed as well)
Cheers,
Dave
After I picked my jaw up off of the floor I then wondered - for those that actually own this "newer" Leica M gear; how the heck do you afford it?
I'm not asking for annual income statements, 401K's, stock portfolios or even to know what you do for a living but just how do you find that much money laying around to afford the opulence?
I think most folks, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, come by their Leica gear second hand. Is it possible that FLE lenses are showing up at deeply discounted prices on the used market?
And while I may be a bit "tongue in cheek" about the whole thing, I am quite sincere - do you curb various other wants/needs in order to afford such things? (and I guess that can go for anyone else that buys Leica M gear because it seems the used prices have sky rocketed as well)
Cheers,
Dave
Tim Gray
Well-known
I make an average salary in the US. I've never bought anything Leica new, other than a tabletop tripod, but I'm thinking about it soon. Mainly through saving my money and not blowing it on other crap. I don't have a lot of other hobbies that cost money. Last time I bought a computer was 2003; I get a laptop every couple years through work. I don't smoke. My car is 10 years old. I don't buy a lot of clothes, etc. I actually don't have *that* much camera gear, and I pare it down frequently. Case in point: I recently acquired a 2nd M7. As a result, I'm going to sell my M6 - no sense in having 3 M cameras laying around. I do have an XPan, but that's going out the door soon. Also, my most recent and only digital camera is a Canon 300D.
I will say all my used stuff for the most part was bought before the recent giant increase in prices, but after the prices started to rise some.
So if you prefer to think of it this way, I buy Leica gear with the money that most people spend on digital cameras and crazy amounts of lenses. I think you just got a Fuji X-Pro1. Instead of buying one, I'm probably going to take that ~$2k and put it towards something else. Along with the $2k I didn't spend last year Maybe it will finally be a digital M if the M10 comes out and seems worth it. Maybe not.
I'm sure others approach it differently. A couple people DO probably make a good deal of money and a $5000 purchase is probably the equivalent of a $1000 (or less) purchase to us.
I will say all my used stuff for the most part was bought before the recent giant increase in prices, but after the prices started to rise some.
So if you prefer to think of it this way, I buy Leica gear with the money that most people spend on digital cameras and crazy amounts of lenses. I think you just got a Fuji X-Pro1. Instead of buying one, I'm probably going to take that ~$2k and put it towards something else. Along with the $2k I didn't spend last year
Maybe it will finally be a digital M if the M10 comes out and seems worth it. Maybe not.I'm sure others approach it differently. A couple people DO probably make a good deal of money and a $5000 purchase is probably the equivalent of a $1000 (or less) purchase to us.
bobkonos
Well-known
For me, building my collection of several brands, all mechanical and classic, it was easier than most, summed up in two words: no kids.
Also, I stay away from ads or sale discussions that involve these words: latest; 6-bit coded; Summilux; Noctilux; But I do have temptation when I see these words: boxed; owners manual; warranty cards.
Also, I stay away from ads or sale discussions that involve these words: latest; 6-bit coded; Summilux; Noctilux; But I do have temptation when I see these words: boxed; owners manual; warranty cards.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
I always buy used, look very hard before buying so far I've made some very nice deals on used gear. I make an average income as well but I have to say I'm naturally a saver, I don't tend to spend a lot on other things
Tim Gray
Well-known
Yeah I guess I should have added: no kids, no mortgage, no debt.
Steinberg2010
Well-known
I'm an aspiring professional (Classical) musician. Money is fairly tight, I shopped around before diving and bought classic rather than recent stuff. Admittedly I went for bargain beauties (by which I mean Summicron's DR and 40mm) rather than noctilux-territory purchases. My purchases were all made with money I inherited/earned through work rather than the wallet of mum and dad. I don't drive a car and don't drink much – both of those probably save me quite a bit as well...
And being 21, I don't have kids(!) or a mortgage, I figured that I may never be able to afford a RF habit when I have those so I'm better off starting now...
~S
And being 21, I don't have kids(!) or a mortgage, I figured that I may never be able to afford a RF habit when I have those so I'm better off starting now...
~S
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Spicy
Well-known
loose morals, hahahaha
FrankS
Registered User
Used, mid-level film gear. No Nocti's or Lux's.
wjlapier
Well-known
How do I do it? Save. Budget. I sell what I don't use. I stopped using Nikon D700 for everything, and sold off most of what I had. Kept very little for specific purposes.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
Yep same here, no kids, no mortgage, no debt, no car. And I went for the "reasonable" Leica, one body, a used summicron. No M9+Noctilux here !
burancap
Veteran
And for me... just the opposite!
I am the former "Norm" of a busy watering hole. I spent ~100USD/night, every night -for about 10 years.
Then one day I met a nice gal at said hole, got married, and slowed down the party. Soon had kids and the party ended. Now needing a hobby, and no longer having a drain on the funds from perpetually renting booze, well...
No more bar(s) now except the occasional quick nip -but nobody "knows my name."
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm using new Voigtländer lenses and used Leica lenses with the M9 (also bought "new", actually an officially certified demo from Leica USA).
I'm another NK-ND. I pay cash for everything, I don't buy anything until I have the cash to afford it, and I prioritize. I wanted an M9 and some lenses more than I wanted/needed a new car (mine is six years old and still in fine shape).
I chose the lenses I did because I like their imaging qualities. I plan to add the Zeiss 25/2.8 ZM and perhaps a Leica Summarit-M 75mm f/2.5 to my kit at some point. Right now, however, I have lenses from 21 to 135mm which altogether cost me about $4500, so my M9 investment is about $7500 (camera, two batteries, enough cards, half case) plus the lenses or $13,000. That's less than the downpayment I'd have made to buy a new BMW or Mercedes on credit... and probably more than I'll pay to buy my next car. ;-)
I sold my Olympus E-5 and several lenses to recoup some of that expenditure too, about $3000 of it so far.
Pick what you want most, save up your money, buy when you can. Buy used when it makes sense. Camera enthusiasts tend to buy way too much gear anyway—I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to that. I could/should just sell everything but the M9 and a couple of lenses, concentrate on the photography ...
I'm another NK-ND. I pay cash for everything, I don't buy anything until I have the cash to afford it, and I prioritize. I wanted an M9 and some lenses more than I wanted/needed a new car (mine is six years old and still in fine shape).
I chose the lenses I did because I like their imaging qualities. I plan to add the Zeiss 25/2.8 ZM and perhaps a Leica Summarit-M 75mm f/2.5 to my kit at some point. Right now, however, I have lenses from 21 to 135mm which altogether cost me about $4500, so my M9 investment is about $7500 (camera, two batteries, enough cards, half case) plus the lenses or $13,000. That's less than the downpayment I'd have made to buy a new BMW or Mercedes on credit... and probably more than I'll pay to buy my next car. ;-)
I sold my Olympus E-5 and several lenses to recoup some of that expenditure too, about $3000 of it so far.
Pick what you want most, save up your money, buy when you can. Buy used when it makes sense. Camera enthusiasts tend to buy way too much gear anyway—I'm as guilty as the next guy when it comes to that. I could/should just sell everything but the M9 and a couple of lenses, concentrate on the photography ...
Vickko
Veteran
Well, you prioritize. For some, it is spending multiple thousands to travel and be in far-away exotic locales.
I bet for some of us, it is spending multiple thousands on that one dream lens and body combination. And perhaps serial dream lens+body combinations, and reselling one to buy the others. I call that "rental cost".
...Vick
I bet for some of us, it is spending multiple thousands on that one dream lens and body combination. And perhaps serial dream lens+body combinations, and reselling one to buy the others. I call that "rental cost".
...Vick
250swb
Well-known
I started with Leica about thirty years ago, so it wasn't like I didn't have a lens to put on my M9 when I got it. So my expenditure is spread over many years, and if you already have a 35mm lens it takes some of the 'need' out of wanting another.
Another way to look at it is that you only need to spend the money on a body every few years, if then. Obviously this unproven with a digital Leica as I don't know what GAS event will happen next. But its not like the compulsion to keep up with the latest Nikon or Canon body because I think Leica is all about the lenses, not the latest bodies. And those lenses can be fifty years old or new, but you can see the necessity of always needing 'new' is a minor consideration.
Steve
Another way to look at it is that you only need to spend the money on a body every few years, if then. Obviously this unproven with a digital Leica as I don't know what GAS event will happen next. But its not like the compulsion to keep up with the latest Nikon or Canon body because I think Leica is all about the lenses, not the latest bodies. And those lenses can be fifty years old or new, but you can see the necessity of always needing 'new' is a minor consideration.
Steve
SteveM
Established
I buy used but good quality older gear, only based on need (that's the hardest part - will this really let me do something different or is it just GAS?), keep for a long time, look after it well. I could afford to spend more, but don't feel the need, and definitely couldn't justify it as it's only a hobby. Old mechanical cameras and lenses fit this model well.
Now back to checking the classifieds...
Steve
Now back to checking the classifieds...
Steve
anjoca76
Well-known
I remember a similar post a couple weeks ago, and I guess my answer is the same now as it was then: Leica gear does not have to be uber-expensive. Sure, it easily can be, and if you are a collector who needs mint everything and all the accompanying accessories, then you are guaranteed to be spending a pretty penny. But if are fine with user grade gear and non-Leica M and LTM glass, then it's not all that much pricier than a lot of other systems. Shop wisely, wait till a good deal comes, buy from private owners instead of insane ebay prices, go on craigslist, etc.
jippiejee
Well-known
I make a decent salary with my full-time job, I sell some photo prints each month, I live in a community so my rent is really low, I have no kids, I ride a bike instead of a car, I drink cheaper-ish wine and roll my own smokes. So I can blow my money on Leica and travel. Two things in life that give me great pleasure, so worth it.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
I started humbly with a used M2 and 35 summicron bought while doing a part time student job.
Over the last 15 years, I've slowly upgraded and added lenses.
I was all film until earlier this year.
I tried the m43 and GXR as digital M stand-ins , but they did not offer the same experience.
I now know I'm a Leica M lifer - unlikely to jump ship no matter what.
Last year was really busy at work, many hours and weekends unpaid overtime, cancelled vacations etc. rushing through a project.
Patent applied for.
The project turned out very well and a large order resulted.
Fortunately all this hard work was acknowledged by management and I got a very good bonus.
Finaly I had the means to add a M9-P and Noctilux.
My photography may not be worthy of it, but I feel I earned it and hope to find the time to use it.
Over the last 15 years, I've slowly upgraded and added lenses.
I was all film until earlier this year.
I tried the m43 and GXR as digital M stand-ins , but they did not offer the same experience.
I now know I'm a Leica M lifer - unlikely to jump ship no matter what.
Last year was really busy at work, many hours and weekends unpaid overtime, cancelled vacations etc. rushing through a project.
Patent applied for.
The project turned out very well and a large order resulted.
Fortunately all this hard work was acknowledged by management and I got a very good bonus.
Finaly I had the means to add a M9-P and Noctilux.
My photography may not be worthy of it, but I feel I earned it and hope to find the time to use it.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Hi, i manufacture baby toys, have a little factory have to say it´s soo difficult with china on my head, but a do manage to make things go!
But when it comes to leica it´s really pricey for that reason i exchange on ebay a lot every time more, but i just keep a limited equipment, for instance recently found an m9, a asph lux and a elmarit 21 with veiwfinder but didn´t keep anything, all went for auction...
I´m happy with my m3, m9, sony nex plain 5 and a 3.5 goggled summaron and my beloved c-sonnar...
Now i´m also offering an m camera restoration and paint service, in my country i already have some customers that are really happy with the paint service...
All in all making toys and dealing with "toys" is a pleasure...
But when it comes to leica it´s really pricey for that reason i exchange on ebay a lot every time more, but i just keep a limited equipment, for instance recently found an m9, a asph lux and a elmarit 21 with veiwfinder but didn´t keep anything, all went for auction...
I´m happy with my m3, m9, sony nex plain 5 and a 3.5 goggled summaron and my beloved c-sonnar...
Now i´m also offering an m camera restoration and paint service, in my country i already have some customers that are really happy with the paint service...
All in all making toys and dealing with "toys" is a pleasure...
No kid, no wife, no car, I rent, and I have no debt. While I haven't bought lenses in the summilux range (most expensive was $1600 or so), I did buy the M9 new. It was just the right time... I had $7,000 worth of stuff around to sell that I didn't need anymore (computer and two cameras which became redundant after upgrades).