Larry Cloetta
Veteran
“That is an an utterly absurd statement.
Show Russians the actual images of what Putin has done in Ukraine and where he has done it, then let them decide...
Chris”
Or, instead of all the shouting and virtue signaling, maybe someone who is interested in the truth in its fullness might watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kIuFdMqWfzA&t=1677s
and then ask themselves why we have been confronted daily in Western media with horrific pictures of dead children in western Ukraine this month, and no one in the West was ever shown these pictures of any of the 14,000 dead, including equally horrific photos of dead Ukrainians from eastern Ukraine which resulted from the shelling of residential areas over the last 8 years, by first the Poroshenko government and then the Zelensky government of Ukraine. Simply because those dead children were ethnically Russian. This video was on youtube for years and no one watched it. It had five million views this month, and was readily accessible, until youtube slapped an age restriction on it a few days ago, because it presents facts inconvenient to the Western narrative.
“The western narrative” also smooths over the fact that the Maidan revolution was a coup, in exactly the same way that popular governments in Chile, Nicaragua, and el Salvador were overthrown by the U.S. in exactly the same way, and for the same reasons, to serve American ends. The same people who have always understood the American involvement in those other coups, and railed against them, somehow refuse to acknowledge that the exact same thing happened in Ukraine in 2014, for exactly the same reasons. The knee jerk reaction of most people here is to just yell at me, but I’d suggest that that energy would be better spent in doing some honest research, though censorship of honest past reporting has deleted a lot of fact based investigative journalism from what’s left of the internet, the parts that Americans have not been recently blocked from seeing.
Anyone open minded and curious as to the nature of global realities would do well to spend 30 minutes watching Putin’s iconic Munich from 15 yers ago where he addressed the dangers inherent in a unipolar world. It’s sober, well reasoned, accurate, and obviously not the thinking of a “madman”. I’d post a link, to the Youtube video, where it has remained for the last 15 years, but
youtube has made it disappear this week. It’s hysterical, the hypocrisy here in the West, all the screaming about freedom and democracy, when we have gone full bore against the ability of our citizens to access any information which might, simply by its honesty, undermine the entire Western project of the Two Minute Hate against Russia. Sober people would have been given much to think about after listening to that speech with an open mind, but since Big Tech has decided we re not mature enough to make up our minds for ourselves, we can still see ineffective bits of it on that internet outcast, Rumble: https://rumble.com/vupxrc-15-years-...-at-munich-security-conference.-why-it-i.html
Why was the West so insistent, to the point of belligerence, that NATO be brought right up to the Russian border? Honest people might ask that. That is, if there were a substantial number of honest people left in this country, who asked those sorts of questions, and expected an honest answer. Why was NATO formed? To kill Soviets, as a counterweight to the Warsaw Pact, which existed to kill capitalists. The Warsaw Pact was dissolved. Why not NATO? NATO exists at this point to serve largely American interests, which are anti-Russian, as if the Soviet Union had not disappeared and been replaced by nearly its opposite. If U.S./NATO is not anti-Russian, why was Russia not allowed to join when it asked? NATO is not “defensive” in nature as apologists claim, as seen by the unprovoked NATO attacks on Serbia and Libya, neither of which had attacked NATO nations. NATO has come to be nothing more than a battering ram used by the dominant power in the unipolar world which came to be after 1991, a unipolar world which is in something of an existential crisis itself, and which has just driven Russia into the arms of the Chinese, something which was not only never inevitable, but will likely be seen in the future to be the acceleration of the dedollarization of the world, and probably the most grievous and profoundly stupid mistake in the history of the U.S. State department.
Here, as in almost every western media report and editorial I have seen in the last three weeks, the essential fact is never mentioned. People should read for themselves the proposal that Russia made to the U.S. and the West generally, in December, January, and February. . It was pure diplomacy on their part, in which they asked for nothing that should not have been granted them. Just read it. None of the talking heads will ever tell people what was in it, because it destroys the narrative of the U.S. State Department which has been parroted by western media and subsidiary western governments across the globe, all falling into lockstep behind the U.S. The only thing Russia was asking for was that the West live up to the promise that Bush Sr. had made to Gorbachev, when the Soviet Union was falling apart, at the urging of the West, into separate entities, one of which was the creation of “Ukraine” as distinct from its historical condition as “the Ukraine.” The West made a promise to Gorbachev and Russia that NATO would never encroach on any of these newly formed statelets, would never move up to Russia’s borders. “Not even an inch.” we said. Unfortunately, Russia never got this pledge in writing, and the West has been threatening Russia with gradual encirclement ever since. All Russia was asking for was that the Ukraine, which is a “nation” cobbled together after WWII, by the winning side, half Poland and half Russia. Like Yugoslavia, Iraq, and any number of states created by victors of wars, with no consideration for cultures or ethnicity, never be allowed to become a NATO state, with weapons meant to intimidate Russia, right on the Russian border. This was thus an existential crisis for Russia, and they made it very clear, diplomatically, for months, that the threat of creating a de facto enemy state on the Russian border, was a red line for Russia, and the Ukraine should be a militarily neutral state, not one weaponized against Russia. On top of that Ukraine has been violating the terms of the Minsk Accords for years, which also factors into the Russian calculus. Signing off on the diplomatic proposal presented to the U.S., which was both understandable, eminently reasonable, and of no cost to the U.S., was all that was necessary to end all this before it ever began. The U.S. must have thought that Russia was bluffing, or didn’t know what “red line” means in the adult world, so it was the intransigence of the U.S. more than anyone else, that kept pushing Russia into a corner. What we see now, which is not only bad, but was completely preventable, is 100% the fault of the U.S. and it’s decades long doctrine of Russian containment. The Russians do not bluff. They presented a peaceful alternative, over and over, for months, and it was rejected over and over. That is the fact that is never mentioned now. Until that fact becomes front in center of every daily discussion about the Ukraine, all those discussions will be fundamentally dishonest. And, I am fully aware that that dishonesty will not only continue, but be amplified by shouts that Putin is a madman, Putin is evil, and, as was expected, Putin is literally Hitler. He’s not, but like most older Russians, he understands Russian history. Russia has been attacked over and over and over again throughout history, from the west. France, Sweden, Germany, and on and on. The U.S. lost something less than 500,000 Americans in WWII. Russia, which was attacked, let’s not forget, by Germany, one of its allies, one of the same countries threatening Russia today, lost over 26,000,000 Russian citizens in the war, and suffered incalculable devastation to their homeland, a fact which remains very raw in Russian consciousness.They know how the world works, and it’s not how it promises to work. The fact that fatuous, gambling amateurs like Tony Blinken at the U.S. State department expect Russians to forget their history, and allow a NATO state to be placed on the Russian border, simply because the U.S. says so (after promising it would never do that), is historically tone deaf. The U.S. knew exactly what it had to do when the Russians put ICBMs in Cuba. Russia, then, had enough sense to back off, and nuclear war was averted. Today, the U.S., and Zelensky did not have the sense to back off, so Russia did what it seemingly had to do after pursuing diplomacy for months and being snubbed. It’s awful, but the fault lies with Zelensky and the U.S. and the rest of NATO who refused to do the right thing when repeatedly offered the chance. The blame for the devastation, and the devastation to come, lies there, not with Putin. I’m an American, and love my country, or used to, but the U.S. is so very much on the wrong side of this, as is the entire western media, and has Ukrainian blood on its hands today. Though like many wars to supposedly protect American interests, and “our values”, this one is being fought on someone else’s land.
So, yes, the West.
Show Russians the actual images of what Putin has done in Ukraine and where he has done it, then let them decide...
Chris”
Or, instead of all the shouting and virtue signaling, maybe someone who is interested in the truth in its fullness might watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kIuFdMqWfzA&t=1677s
and then ask themselves why we have been confronted daily in Western media with horrific pictures of dead children in western Ukraine this month, and no one in the West was ever shown these pictures of any of the 14,000 dead, including equally horrific photos of dead Ukrainians from eastern Ukraine which resulted from the shelling of residential areas over the last 8 years, by first the Poroshenko government and then the Zelensky government of Ukraine. Simply because those dead children were ethnically Russian. This video was on youtube for years and no one watched it. It had five million views this month, and was readily accessible, until youtube slapped an age restriction on it a few days ago, because it presents facts inconvenient to the Western narrative.
“The western narrative” also smooths over the fact that the Maidan revolution was a coup, in exactly the same way that popular governments in Chile, Nicaragua, and el Salvador were overthrown by the U.S. in exactly the same way, and for the same reasons, to serve American ends. The same people who have always understood the American involvement in those other coups, and railed against them, somehow refuse to acknowledge that the exact same thing happened in Ukraine in 2014, for exactly the same reasons. The knee jerk reaction of most people here is to just yell at me, but I’d suggest that that energy would be better spent in doing some honest research, though censorship of honest past reporting has deleted a lot of fact based investigative journalism from what’s left of the internet, the parts that Americans have not been recently blocked from seeing.
Anyone open minded and curious as to the nature of global realities would do well to spend 30 minutes watching Putin’s iconic Munich from 15 yers ago where he addressed the dangers inherent in a unipolar world. It’s sober, well reasoned, accurate, and obviously not the thinking of a “madman”. I’d post a link, to the Youtube video, where it has remained for the last 15 years, but
youtube has made it disappear this week. It’s hysterical, the hypocrisy here in the West, all the screaming about freedom and democracy, when we have gone full bore against the ability of our citizens to access any information which might, simply by its honesty, undermine the entire Western project of the Two Minute Hate against Russia. Sober people would have been given much to think about after listening to that speech with an open mind, but since Big Tech has decided we re not mature enough to make up our minds for ourselves, we can still see ineffective bits of it on that internet outcast, Rumble: https://rumble.com/vupxrc-15-years-...-at-munich-security-conference.-why-it-i.html
Why was the West so insistent, to the point of belligerence, that NATO be brought right up to the Russian border? Honest people might ask that. That is, if there were a substantial number of honest people left in this country, who asked those sorts of questions, and expected an honest answer. Why was NATO formed? To kill Soviets, as a counterweight to the Warsaw Pact, which existed to kill capitalists. The Warsaw Pact was dissolved. Why not NATO? NATO exists at this point to serve largely American interests, which are anti-Russian, as if the Soviet Union had not disappeared and been replaced by nearly its opposite. If U.S./NATO is not anti-Russian, why was Russia not allowed to join when it asked? NATO is not “defensive” in nature as apologists claim, as seen by the unprovoked NATO attacks on Serbia and Libya, neither of which had attacked NATO nations. NATO has come to be nothing more than a battering ram used by the dominant power in the unipolar world which came to be after 1991, a unipolar world which is in something of an existential crisis itself, and which has just driven Russia into the arms of the Chinese, something which was not only never inevitable, but will likely be seen in the future to be the acceleration of the dedollarization of the world, and probably the most grievous and profoundly stupid mistake in the history of the U.S. State department.
Here, as in almost every western media report and editorial I have seen in the last three weeks, the essential fact is never mentioned. People should read for themselves the proposal that Russia made to the U.S. and the West generally, in December, January, and February. . It was pure diplomacy on their part, in which they asked for nothing that should not have been granted them. Just read it. None of the talking heads will ever tell people what was in it, because it destroys the narrative of the U.S. State Department which has been parroted by western media and subsidiary western governments across the globe, all falling into lockstep behind the U.S. The only thing Russia was asking for was that the West live up to the promise that Bush Sr. had made to Gorbachev, when the Soviet Union was falling apart, at the urging of the West, into separate entities, one of which was the creation of “Ukraine” as distinct from its historical condition as “the Ukraine.” The West made a promise to Gorbachev and Russia that NATO would never encroach on any of these newly formed statelets, would never move up to Russia’s borders. “Not even an inch.” we said. Unfortunately, Russia never got this pledge in writing, and the West has been threatening Russia with gradual encirclement ever since. All Russia was asking for was that the Ukraine, which is a “nation” cobbled together after WWII, by the winning side, half Poland and half Russia. Like Yugoslavia, Iraq, and any number of states created by victors of wars, with no consideration for cultures or ethnicity, never be allowed to become a NATO state, with weapons meant to intimidate Russia, right on the Russian border. This was thus an existential crisis for Russia, and they made it very clear, diplomatically, for months, that the threat of creating a de facto enemy state on the Russian border, was a red line for Russia, and the Ukraine should be a militarily neutral state, not one weaponized against Russia. On top of that Ukraine has been violating the terms of the Minsk Accords for years, which also factors into the Russian calculus. Signing off on the diplomatic proposal presented to the U.S., which was both understandable, eminently reasonable, and of no cost to the U.S., was all that was necessary to end all this before it ever began. The U.S. must have thought that Russia was bluffing, or didn’t know what “red line” means in the adult world, so it was the intransigence of the U.S. more than anyone else, that kept pushing Russia into a corner. What we see now, which is not only bad, but was completely preventable, is 100% the fault of the U.S. and it’s decades long doctrine of Russian containment. The Russians do not bluff. They presented a peaceful alternative, over and over, for months, and it was rejected over and over. That is the fact that is never mentioned now. Until that fact becomes front in center of every daily discussion about the Ukraine, all those discussions will be fundamentally dishonest. And, I am fully aware that that dishonesty will not only continue, but be amplified by shouts that Putin is a madman, Putin is evil, and, as was expected, Putin is literally Hitler. He’s not, but like most older Russians, he understands Russian history. Russia has been attacked over and over and over again throughout history, from the west. France, Sweden, Germany, and on and on. The U.S. lost something less than 500,000 Americans in WWII. Russia, which was attacked, let’s not forget, by Germany, one of its allies, one of the same countries threatening Russia today, lost over 26,000,000 Russian citizens in the war, and suffered incalculable devastation to their homeland, a fact which remains very raw in Russian consciousness.They know how the world works, and it’s not how it promises to work. The fact that fatuous, gambling amateurs like Tony Blinken at the U.S. State department expect Russians to forget their history, and allow a NATO state to be placed on the Russian border, simply because the U.S. says so (after promising it would never do that), is historically tone deaf. The U.S. knew exactly what it had to do when the Russians put ICBMs in Cuba. Russia, then, had enough sense to back off, and nuclear war was averted. Today, the U.S., and Zelensky did not have the sense to back off, so Russia did what it seemingly had to do after pursuing diplomacy for months and being snubbed. It’s awful, but the fault lies with Zelensky and the U.S. and the rest of NATO who refused to do the right thing when repeatedly offered the chance. The blame for the devastation, and the devastation to come, lies there, not with Putin. I’m an American, and love my country, or used to, but the U.S. is so very much on the wrong side of this, as is the entire western media, and has Ukrainian blood on its hands today. Though like many wars to supposedly protect American interests, and “our values”, this one is being fought on someone else’s land.
So, yes, the West.
