Scanning 4x5 negatives

[DennisM]

Unsure if this topic has been discussed earlier, but here goes. I've been scanning 35mm and medium format negatives successfully with an Epson V600 scanner and recently have been editing them in LightRoom. Meanwhile I'm the custodian of my family's many 4x5 negatives. The V600 cannot scan 4x5 negatives - only 35mm and medium format, so I was resolved to having selective 4x5's scanned outside or perhaps upgrading my scanner. However, I thought I'd try scanning a 4x5 negative as a document, importing the scan into LR, and inverting the scan. The results on my first and only negative were very successful, at least in my opinion; certainly easy to do. Has anyone else done something similar? If so, what were your results? Any advice or suggestions?

 

[Mackinaw]

I have a V800 so can scan 4x5 directly. Before that I had a Epson 4490. It too, only scanned 35mm and medium format negs. I would scan the 4x5 neg twice, one half at a time, then stitch together in PS. Worked well.

Jim B.

 

[Beemermark]

Why not just scan the negative as a negative? The V700 has a holder for 4x5 but for 8x10 negs there is just a mask to position the negative and the neg lays flat on the glass.

 

[DennisM]

Why not just scan the negative as a negative? The V700 has a holder for 4x5 but for 8x10 negs there is just a mask to position the negative and the neg lays flat on the glass.

Thanks for the suggestion, but my scanner is a V600; it will scan only 35mm and medium format negatives.

 

[charjohncarter]

I use my V500 similar to your V600 to scan 4x5. I made a 1/8 x 9 x 3 3/8 inch piece of plastic then make two scans right side and left side butting the long edge to ouside edge of the scanner. Then using Microsofts ICE (free) I stitch the two images.

Arista EDU Ultra 400 Rodinal by John Carter, on Flickr

 

[Jamie123]

See if there's a place where you live that lets you hire time on something like a Hasselblad X5 scanner. The quality will be better and it'll take a lot less time.
If that's not an option you could look into buying a used Epson 4990 er even V700 if the budget allows it. I have both the 4990 and the V850 and I'd say for 4x5 the difference is somewhat marginal. The holders on the V850 are much better but you can also buy those separately.
In case you have a high quality digital camera I suppose there's also the option of using the camera and a light table to "scan" the negatives. Might be the quickest and easiest option.

 

[Barry Kirsten]

I've also scanned 4x5 negatives in two halves on my V600 then stitched them together, but it's a bit of a pain to do it that way, in my opinion. Dennis, hen you say you've scanned them as a document, I suppose you mean with the white reflector in place and settings for greyscale document? I didn't know this would work.

 

[benlees]

Thanks for the suggestion, but my scanner is a V600; it will scan only 35mm and medium format negatives.

He means just lay the neg right on the glass of the scanner. Try scan as a document and then do a reversal. If you scan as "film" the scanner might not get the height right if laid on the glass. Moire may also be a problem. A flatbed scanner will scan anything that fits...

 

[DennisM]

He means just lay the neg right on the glass of the scanner. Try scan as a document and then do a reversal. If you scan as "film" the scanner might not get the height right if laid on the glass. Moire may also be a problem. A flatbed scanner will scan anything that fits...

I understand; I laid the negative on the glass as if it were a document; the V600 would not scan it as a negative; had to tell the scanner that the negative was a document. Then it scanned, and I was able to do a reversal. Have to remember to place the negative emulsion side down, i.e., against the glass - the reverse of what one does when scanning a negative.

 

[benlees]

I understand; I laid the negative on the glass as if it were a document; the V600 would not scan it as a negative; had to tell the scanner that the negative was a document. Then it scanned, and I was able to do a reversal. Have to remember to place the negative emulsion side down, i.e., against the glass - the reverse of what one does when scanning a negative.

I am ignorant of the V600, is the glass area basically a little bigger than 8x10? Older/other Epson's came with a 4x5 film holder that maybe able to be modified to work with the V600.

 

[DennisM]

Scanned 4x5 negatives

Scanned 4x5 negatives

I've also scanned 4x5 negatives in two halves on my V600 then stitched them together, but it's a bit of a pain to do it that way, in my opinion. Dennis, hen you say you've scanned them as a document, I suppose you mean with the white reflector in place and settings for greyscale document? I didn't know this would work.

That's correct. Place the negative (emulsion side down - the opposite of what one does when scanning 35mm or Medium format) with the white reflector in place; then, in my case, import into Light Room and perform a reversal. Actually works very well. The scanner thinks you are scanning a document.

 

[charjohncarter]

I've also scanned 4x5 negatives in two halves on my V600 then stitched them together, but it's a bit of a pain to do it that way, in my opinion. Dennis, hen you say you've scanned them as a document, I suppose you mean with the white reflector in place and settings for greyscale document? I didn't know this would work.

There is an extra step; which is stitching. But with that plastic I described I have no trouble with right angle placement. You can actually to some editing in the ICE program: minor cropping, changing to Jpeg or tiff 8 bit if you want. I don't find it a pain. It sure is easier than those crumby trays. I use Tmax mostly (although the one I posted was Arista), and they are flat when dried so no problem with newton rings, distortion with a curved negative.

This one of the first ones I did by stitching; and I made the camera from an old Polaroid 95, here is the camera:

$60 Polaroid Conversion by John Carter, on Flickr

now the photo:

Arista EDU Ultra 400 Rodinal by John Carter, on Flickr

 

[Barry Kirsten]

Amazing! I've been ten years on LFP forum and never heard of this. I think it may not be seen as a good alternative there as people seem to be very serious about scanning - if they do it at all. And I know that scanners for LF negs or transparencies mostly have two lenses and other sophistications to do with lighting that I'm unfamiliar with. However... I thought to myself that if it can be done with 4x5, then why not 8x10? A few minutes testing resulted in the following. I noted that the scan was initially very soft and so needed a fair amount of sharpening, and a tweek of the curves and contrast. But a pretty fair result, all the same.

 

[Barry Kirsten]

An update to the above. And I take back my 'amazing' comment. A little further experimenting showed me that it's a very unreliable method. I got lucky with my first try. I did another test with a different film, this time an x-ray negative. The result was unusable, resembling a solarised print (see below). Firstly, none of the image editing programs I use would invert it to a positive. I also noted that the histogram was very narrow, indicating that not much of the tonal range was being recorded by the scanner. The histogram for my other negative (previous post) was likewise very narrow, but did carry a bit more detail, perhaps explaining why I was able to get some sort of image. I think the reason why this method isn't used with negatives is that (a) it doesn't work with all films and (b) the tonal range is very restricted. The obvious reason is that the two methods are totally different: scanning a document is a reflective process, whereas scanning a film is transmissive. The information in a document is contained on an opaque base, whereas with a film it is on a transparent base, hence the need for different processes.

 

[Pioneer]

I have been scanning 4x5 in two passes for quite a while now (it was recommended by John Carter) and have had great luck. I use Photoshop CS6 to stitch the two halves and it seems to work fine. I am not a great photographer nor am I a great scanner operator so I am still refining my technique but it does work and, if you negative is decent to start with, it seems to produce pretty good results. I found that I got better results when I matched the histogram inputs and outputs of both halves when I scan them.

I have even been working on scanning 8x10 in 5 sections then stitching those together. I have had some small success but nothing really good yet. For starters my computer starts to choke on the stitching if I scan the sections at a resolution higher than 1200. I do prefer to contact print my 8x10 negatives and then scan the contact print as a photo using my Epson 500, that seems to work out pretty well.

There are a lot of options if you want to digitize your large format negatives but do not have a lot of money to work with. In the end, if I do the scans and find that the negative is really good, and I want to make a big print, then I send it out for a drum scan. But, if all you want is to see what the scan will look like it works fairly well.


I have not had any luck trying to scan the negative as a photo on my V500. If someone has solved this and is getting good results I would definitely be interested in trying out your process.

 

[narsuitus]

I had a scanner that could handle 35mm and medium format film. When I upgraded it, I purchased an Epson V850 scanner that could also handle 4x5 inch sheet film.

 

[Barry Kirsten]

I would do that too if I had a spare $1400, but at the moment I desperately need film and paper. Anyway the V850 is currently out of stock in Australia.

 

[Glenn2]

I would do that too if I had a spare $1400, but at the moment I desperately need film and paper. Anyway the V850 is currently out of stock in Australia.

Look for an Epson 3200 photo, it has the light in the lid for transparent media.
The opening measures 4 1/2” x 10 1/2” so could do a couple 4x5” at a time or split scan 8x10” negatives.

They’re a few years old and can probably be picked up used for very little.
I found it a little too soft for 35mm, as flatbeds tend to be. For 35mm a Nikon CS-5000 gets used, anything bigger is fine on the Epson.

Glenn

 

[webOSUser]

Has anybody considered using a 4x5 negative carrier from an enlarger as a negative holder and dSLR scanning the negative?

Steve W

 

[GMOG]

Has anybody considered using a 4x5 negative carrier from an enlarger as a negative holder and dSLR scanning the negative?

Yes. I've done it using a Nikon D800E and the 55mm 2.8 Micro lens. I used a studio strobe and a diffusion screen as a light source, but I'm sure one could achieve success using other sources. It took time aligning the negative and camera to be square with one another, but it worked well enough. A copy stand and LED panel might be a better solution.