How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[Yokosuka Mike]

Lucky! In the USA, Canon's web store seems to have the best branded merchandise, but no doubt much never makes it out of Japan.

Hi Jeff!

Cosina has nice free stuff too! The Voigtländer and Zeiss pens not the coffee cup.

All the best,
Mike

 

[JeffS7444]

Cosina has nice free stuff too! The Voigtländer and Zeiss pens not the coffee cup.

Nice!

Was told by the Leica representative that this little magnifier was rare, and it's a beauty, perhaps an uncatalogued Leica product.

 

[Godfrey]

It took you a little time to get back there again Godfrey, so let us not be disingenuous. You were using a CL for awhile, then you tried the Pixii and then you decided the M10 Monochrome was what you really needed. ...

Not sure where you were going with this "disingenuous" notion, jsrockit. I cannot see how I could possibly be construed as being insincere in my statements. The history isn't as you pose it.

I've had the CL since 2018 and it had become my main digital workhorse camera. I started having difficulty using the CL in sunlight about a year and a half ago. I knew an optical rangefinder would solve the problem, but then the discussion of major revisions to the hardware of the Pixii came up, and I decided to try one to see if it was a suitable replacement for the CL for my daylight shooting, and maybe save a couple thousand dollars.

After all, it's the same format, I have all the lenses I need for the format (same ones I use on the CL, since I only use M and R mount lenses on it), and it's about the same form factor.

Sadly, the Pixii had significant flaws that get in the way of my usage ... for instance, amongst other things, the viewfinder and rangefinder were great but the choice of settings display made it just as difficult for me to make exposure settings in sunlight as it was difficult to see the EVF in the CL. All in all, I deemed it not a useful tradeoff.

However, testing the Pixii in its mono mode brought me back to the fact that I'd been wanting an M Monochrom since they were first announced, and the concept still appealed to me. So once I determined that the Pixii was not the solution to my problems and returned it, I ordered the Leica M10 Monochrom. I have all the lenses that I need for that camera too, the same as the ones I use on the CL and used on the Pixii.

BTW: I still have, and still use, the CL. I have and use it for the things that it does well for me ... Color capture, early morning and evening work outdoors, tabletop and macro, etc etc, which are what I originally bought the CL body for. It's a lovely camera; I just can't see the display in the viewfinder very well in bright sunlight which affects my ability to focus and frame properly. I can manage it, but it means I use it less often than I might otherwise.

Whether you can or cannot afford, or want to spend the money on, a $10,000 camera, or whether getting one is difficult because you choose to live somewhere that places additional costs and accessibility barriers to the purchase, etc etc, is neither here nor there. It does reinforce what I said: "... nattering about how much something costs is a sure sign that you can't afford it, or that the thing has lower priority to you than its price warrants. ... " I categorize from your statements that the latter is the case, it's not a priority to you. That's just fine. All the rest of your discussion is, well, the subject of the thread at large. The fundamental question: "Is there enough market for someone to spend the development money and produce a low cost but decent digital RF camera?" has been opined about for five or six pages now, and there is no resolution to it.

A camera that works the way I want and produces what I want is a priority to me, and the M10 Monochrom is definitely meeting those requirements. The result is that I'm perfectly happy to have spend the money for it, and I'm getting a lot of satisfying photos with it.

If some odd miracle happens and some enterprising nutty folks produce a high quality digital rangefinder for under a thousand dollars, some day ... Well, in an infinite universe, there is a finite chance of nearly anything happening somewhere, sometime. Presuming it happens, I'll likely try one of them out too ... because I too like cameras, like the different solutions and compromises that camera manufacturers have brought to market, etc etc. 😉

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

 

[coogee]

I think there's definitely a market for a cheaper digital rangefinder! I'm not aware of any Chinese made cheap(er) film rangefinder cameras? Only Japanese film ones in recent history? (happy to be corrected on that...)
So the precedent isn't high perhaps but I would welcome anyone that made another one, whoever and wherever they may be.
The Pixii was too many compromises for me but if it opens the door to more, that would be great. Fuji seem like the obvious candidate but nothing so far.

 

[jsrockit]

There have certainly been Chinese rangefinders in the past, you can google them. Nothing in recent times though.

 

[Johngwill]

No so cheap Chinese rangefinder. Sold at auction last week.

 

[JeffS7444]

If anyone wants to make inquiries, it appears that the entities which once produced cameras under the Seagull, Phenix, Great Wall et al brands still exist in some capacity. At least Phenix was still producing (film!) rangefinder cameras as recently as the early 2000s, sold as Yasuhara T981 and Great Wall JG50.

https://www.phenixoptics.com.cn/

http://www.seagull-digital.com/

I'd like to pick up a T981/JG50 at some point, but IIRC, interest in the things was pretty tepid at the time.

 

[jsrockit]

Not sure where you were going with this "disingenuous" notion, jsrockit. I cannot see how I could possibly be construed as being insincere in my statements. The history isn't as you pose it.

I apologize, maybe disingenuous was a bit negative, but what I meant was that it took you awhile to get back to wanting to use a digital M again. You tried some cheaper / different options and then spent the money to get an M10 Monochrom. That was my point. I'm not ready to go straight to a M10R or M11, so I need a step in-between.

 

[JeffS7444]

Phase-detect autofocus looks like a sort of rangefinder to me:

https://photographylife.com/how-phase-detection-autofocus-works

 

[Darthfeeble]

More likely to me would be a re-configured Olympus. All of what they need is already there, just re-arrange it to look like an RF. Stealing other's tech is not a hindrance to them.

 

[Godfrey]

I apologize, maybe disingenuous was a bit negative, but what I meant was that it took you awhile to get back to wanting to use a digital M again. You tried some cheaper / different options and then spent the money to get an M10 Monochrom. That was my point. I'm not ready to go straight to a M10R or M11, so I need a step in-between.

Apology accepted.

As to "taking a while to get back to wanting to use a digital M again", I didn't try "some cheaper/different options" ... I tried one alternative, cheaper, digital RF camera before buying another digital M. I do have other digital cameras ... like the Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c, received in 2020 ... but they address different ideas/needs/use by comparison to the Leica CL, M, and SL cameras. They've never been a 'main camera' in my equipment kit, or they predate the Leica Ms, SL, and CL in my purchase and use history.

(I do still have a bunch of Olympus gear, both bodies and lenses, which come from the 2007-2013 time period. I haven't used any of that stuff in an eon. I sold, and gave away, some parts of that kit already...)

Equipment flows through my cabinet, as it has for 50+ years. Independent of photography, it's fun. I use it. 🙂

G

Pre-parade Parade - Pride morning, San Francisco 2022
Leica M10 Monochrom + Summarit-M 75mm f/2.5
ISO 400 @ f/8 @ 1/125 sec, orange filter​

 

[jsrockit]

Apology accepted.

Equipment flows through my cabinet, as it has for 50+ years. Independent of photography, it's fun. I use it. 🙂

Thank you. Yes, I understand completely... It's only been 30 years for me, but the same.

 

[jsrockit]

Well, unfortunately, my "cheap" Leica M240 here in Chile has been sold. I'll have to wait... but yeah, I think this is the route I have to take. I want a digital RF again.

 

[Rob-F]

I would never buy one, if they did. Few countries have a perfect record of respecting human rights, however China's transgressions are so egregious and so extensive that I cannot, in good conscience, countenance sending dollars their way if at all avoidable.

I agree. How can we feel good about buying from China if they are going to support Russia in destroying a sovereign country and killing its people? I cannot, either.

 

[Keith]

I'm with the ... "why would they bother?" ... train of thought personally! 🙂

 

[raydm6]

Nice!

Was told by the Leica representative that this little magnifier was rare, and it's a beauty, perhaps an uncatalogued Leica product.
View attachment 4797757

I found a reference to it:

Leica Reading Loupe Magnifier 98599​

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[jsrockit]

I'm with the ... "why would they bother?" ... train of thought personally! 🙂

and that could be correct, but you never know.

 

[Rayt]

I am retired now and used to work for German and Dutch companies for the Asian consumer market mostly China due to the volume. Maybe one day China will no longer be associated with cheap and cheerful but this day is far off. While it’s true Korean and Japanese brands went through the same phase decades ago the difference is that even Chinese people don’t want Chinese made products. For that market there are two tiers - the foreign brands which command premium prices local consumers happily will pay if they have the means, and the local stuff for people on a budget. Rangefinders are niche products elsewhere and only prestige will move such products in China.

 

[TL7]

LLL is making lenses that no one else did for years..the company is selling and growing..
Someone in China could do the exact same thing with a digital Leica.
Copy it..
Or make a cheaper version like Pixii.

 

[cboy]

LLL is half way there with a film rangefinder in the works.

Light Lens Lab Hints at Prototype for Replica Leica Standard

Who knows maybe DJI might step up their game and make some a new L mount mirrorless rangefinder styled camera ( or anyone in the L mount alliance I hope). A rangefinder "styled" camera is probably the best we'll get from them.

But perhaps given inflated economic climate it might be the opportune time to have a cheaper digital rangefinder and undercut Leica Though whichever company that comes will have a challenge with the cheaper niche secondhand rangefinder market.

It's seems Leica's pricing structure and legacy just saturates it's product from the top down to an already niche market, which is maybe why no one has ever successfully challenged their monopoly.