How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[Duofold RF]

I'm happy with the look alike EVF clone neo-classic cameras like the X-Pro3 and X-E4 cameras. They look like rangefinders, they’re much cheaper in price, good quality construction, and they can use old manual focus M-mount lenses and new computer chipped manual focus lenses (thank you Cosina).

Can you use your connection in Japan to ask them to make RRF special digital rangefinder? Fuji would be the best source, they have all components, including software et al. just need to replace a crop sensor with full frame on and change the mount, then all done. You can facillate sell in here or eBay, If price is right will be a hot sell.

All the best Donald

 

[JeffS7444]

How many people that buy a Leica digital rangefinder actually know what they are buying?

They let me into the club, so how exclusive could it be?!

But I'll say this about Leica: They have the best promotional swag.

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

Can you use your connection in Japan to ask them to made RRF special digital rangefinder? Fuji would be the best source, they have all components, including software et al. just need to replace a crop sensor with full frame on and change the mount, then all done. You can facillate sell in here or eBay, If price is right will be a hot sell.

All the best Donald

I think I would have better luck convincing Epson and Cosina to get back together and produce a new R-D1… and there’s likely zero chance of that happening.

All the best,
Mike

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

But I'll say this about Leica: They have the best promotional swag.

Hey! You should see the canvas tote bag Fujifilm gave me when I bought my X-Pro3... it's really nice!

All the best,
Mike

 

[james.liam]

:nopitty:O

How many people that buy a Leica digital rangefinder actually know what they are buying? Im just curious. If its a niche thing, and the average joe doesn't have a clue as to what a rangefinder is. Is it possible that a lot of M11 cameras are bought by ultra-rich people and put in the closet next to their designer brand bags, watches, diamond belly button rings, sapphire encrusted swizzle sticks and other needless things never to see the light of day?

Personally, I think that the modern day digital rangefinder camera is dead. Not the antique film ones… they’ll probably live forever. However, the new fresh in the box rangefinders… if you want one, and you’re not filthy rich, do you really need it?

Im not looking for a fight and I'm not arguing with anyone. If you want, need, must have a true digital rangefinder, please ignore me and fork out the money, or wait forever for some company to make a cheap one.

Life is all about choices.

All the best,
Mike

Consider yourself ignored.

 

[boojum]

:nopitty:O

Consider yourself ignored.

That's cold, man.

 

[fireblade]

:Consider yourself ignored.

lol. Todays men.

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

That's cold, man.

No worries… It's a cheap shot, no big deal.

All the best,
Mike

 

[Archlich]

Good counterpoints. Though I am not sure high volume demand and rangefinder lenses are synonymous either.

The lenses are high volume, since most can be adapted to mirrorless cameras, making up a segment that offers mechanical operation, adequate size and relatively low price tag. Which makes the common "why put a $400 lens on your $8,000 camera" argument invalid - most people don't really have the $8,000 camera to begin with, despite buying M mount lenses.

Off topic but every time I see a ZM 35/1.4 Distagon today, I can't help but wonder if it will ever have the chance to be properly mated to a Zeiss Ikon ZM body.

 

[former member]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...lassical.html/DFF/d10-v21-t1-x1106565/SID/DFF

Now they just need to add a Rangefinder to it,

 

[james.liam]

No worries… It's a cheap shot, no big deal.

All the best,
Mike

Knocking RF aficionados on RF Forum, as rich jewelry and trinket collectors isn’t? You do your thing and let others do theirs. Even trinket collectors, who BTW, seem to provide significant kit on the secondary market for the rest of us to afford buying.

 

[jsrockit]

On the flip side, who does not get frustrated at times on an Internet forum? I have no issue with what Mike said. I gave my reply and he accepted it.

 

[Godfrey]

As I've written elsewhere, I have gone back to a Leica M because my eyes no longer adapt to the relative dimness of an EVF in sunlit circumstances quickly enough for an EVF camera to be useful. With the ability to see the focusing and framing aids of the M in most lighting situations, I am able to continue doing the photography I enjoy.

The M10 Monochrom is expensive...? Yes. What of it? It's a beautifully made, brilliantly designed camera that does what it does extremely well. And with some effort, I was able to pay for it. If I couldn't, I'd have bought a secondhand M digital and saved a bit of money. Constantly nattering about how much something costs is a sure sign that you can't afford it, or that the thing has lower priority to you than its price warrants. If I want something but can't afford it, I admire it, fantasize a little, and move on. If I really really want it, I work out how to be able to afford it by raising its priority and doing without other things.

I could care less what people who buy a camera as a piece of jewelry and don't know how to use it do. They're not photographers, and who cares about them? Why should their actions influence me at all?

Again, I doubt that the Chinese will make a "cheap" digital rangefinder. I don't want a "cheap" digital rangefinder anyway ... I want a well-designed, quality-made camera that is satisfying to make photographs with, and that makes satisfying photographs for me. What it costs is a secondary consideration.

G

Button Vendor - Pride morning, San Francisco 2022
Leica M10 Monochrom + Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4
ISO 500 @ f/5.6 @ 1/125, Orange filter​

 

[JeffS7444]

Hey! You should see the canvas tote bag Fujifilm gave me when I bought my X-Pro3... it's really nice!

Lucky! In the USA, Canon's web store seems to have the best branded merchandise, but no doubt much never makes it out of Japan.

 

[Duofold RF]

………..The M10 Monochrom is expensive...? Yes. What of it? It's a beautifully made, brilliantly designed camera that does what it does extremely well. And with some effort, I was able to pay for it. If I couldn't, I'd have bought a secondhand M digital and saved a bit of money. Constantly nattering about how much something costs is a sure sign that you can't afford it, or that the thing has lower priority to you than its price warrants. If I want something but can't afford it, I admire it, fantasize a little, and move on. If I really really want it, I work out how to be able to afford it by raising its priority and doing without other things.……

Yes I admit I cannot afford M9 or M10 or M11 or justify the price tag. I am not professional photographer or a rich professor like Raid. Majority members in here are just for fun not make living on photography, for professionals, digital Ms are tools, for me they are expensive pieces of jewelry when I have more important things to prioritize, such as pay rent, put food on the table. So affordable digital M still have market. That’s why we should hire Mike as RFF lobbyist to persuade Fuji or cosina to make a affordable digital M.

 

[former member]

The Pixii is about the same price as the Epson R-D1. The same crop for the sensor. It is $3,000- not much more than a used M6 goes for these days.

I doubt anyone will make a $500 digital rangefinder. $3,000 is doable for a crop sensor. Full-frame RF cameras require a specialized sensor.

My M8 was $2500 used 12 years ago. Still works. A used M9 with new CCD goes for about $3000. I bought mine new, same with the M Monochrom. 10 years later- still use them, no need for anything newer.

 

[JeffS7444]

Despite high prices, I speculate that manufacturing rangefinder cameras in 2022 is more a labor of love than an astute business decision, and Leica seems to be building M-products on what amounts to a build-to-order basis for a tiny audience who are passionate about the things.

 

[Evergreen States]

Rangefinder cameras have many limitations that prevent them from ever again seeing mass market appeal. Which in turn makes it difficult to make a profit in volume. I also imagine that the rangefinder mechanism is difficult to mass produce and mass produce well with automated machinery, which, if this assumption is correct, means that less of the time and labor can be saved using automation.

I would love to see a more affordable full frame digital rangefinder than Leica. It might happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[jsrockit]

The M10 Monochrom is expensive...? Yes. What of it? It's a beautifully made, brilliantly designed camera that does what it does extremely well. And with some effort, I was able to pay for it. If I couldn't, I'd have bought a secondhand M digital and saved a bit of money. Constantly nattering about how much something costs is a sure sign that you can't afford it, or that the thing has lower priority to you than its price warrants. If I want something but can't afford it, I admire it, fantasize a little, and move on. If I really really want it, I work out how to be able to afford it by raising its priority and doing without other things.

It took you a little time to get back there again Godfrey, so let us not be disingenuous. You were using a CL for awhile, then you tried the Pixii and then you decided the M10 Monochrome was what you really needed. As far as if I can afford a $10,000 camera, the answer is yes. I'm an adult, I have a savings account. Now, do I want to pay that for what would not be my main camera? No, I just do not. BUT, I do like rangefinders and sometimes want to use one. Like many of us, I like to use different cameras. Ok, so used Leica or Pixii right? I agree, but it is not that simple where I live. The $3000 Pixii turns into $4500 after Fed Ex fees and Chilean import taxes. There are too many things I do not like about the camera for that $ as well as being about the price for a used M10 in the USA. Similarly, a used Leica digital M rarely comes up for sale in Chile (where I live). Why? because Leicas were not even sold here in any store until last year. Now one store sells them and the price difference vs. the USA is about 20% more. The used market is extremely different to the one in the USA. You cannot just decide you want it and buy it tomorrow used. It might take a year or more to see something you want. Importing one from outside of the country adds those same fees and taxes again (yes, even on used equipment). So, basically, my only way has been to buy whatever I want while on vacation in the USA. I generally do this, but I have no plans to go back home for the time being. That said, in a weird coincidence, there seems to be a silver M240 available at a great price in Chile as we speak... so, I am on it.

As far as the Chinese digital RF... it was just a thread I felt like making. It was not constant nattering about price. To me, with my lack of knowledge based on how things work for those companies like 7Artisans and TTArtisans, it seemed like it could be a next logical step. I mean, I remember when people complained about the quality of the Bessas too compared to Leicas. Now those Bessas sell for more than twice the amount they were new. Why? because nobody is making new ones and people like rangefinders. For the record, I am completely ok with the Bessa´s quality. I think there is a market for something like the Pixii, but that can be sold in stores and serviced in various countries. If Pixii pulled it off for less than $3000, surely someone else can too.

 

[JeffS7444]

Not everyone who buys new Leica equipment is wealthy, except in the sense that being born in a first world country automatically makes you pretty elite. Some people are just better at prioritizing, better at deciding what's important, and not being so easily distracted. Those are skills which I'm always looking to improve in myself, even if I'm not looking to buy a new Leica!