How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[Ko.Fe.]

The Downloads for the M-E/M9 and M Monochrom are still on the download site. The M9 download is under M-E, but is obviously for both-
"m9-1_210.upd".

Downloads | Leica Camera US

leica-camera.com

BUT- select "ALL" for the category, not "Leica M System". Start at Page 5. I just downloaded the files for the M9 and M Monochrom to have a copy. I have the latest for the M8, so did not keep looking. I created a "Leica Firmware file" directory on the computer.

Thank you! Got last M-E firmware and instruction on google drive.
Doesn't look they kept M8 fw.

 

[Godfrey]

The Downloads for the M-E/M9 and M Monochrom are still on the download site. The M9 download is under M-E, but is obviously for both-
"m9-1_210.upd".

Downloads | Leica Camera US

leica-camera.com

BUT- select "ALL" for the category, not "Leica M System". Start at Page 5. I just downloaded the files for the M9 and M Monochrom to have a copy. I have the latest for the M8, so did not keep looking. I created a "Leica Firmware file" directory on the computer.

So Brian, I'm curious. I know that you like to hack firmware so I understand why you might want to have a copy of the installer file: to enable multiple installs of differently hacked firmware.

But ... What's the point of someone who doesn't do that having a copy of the fw download if they've already got the latest version installed? I've always saved the download files for fw I've installed, for all my cameras, but mostly for the track of associated notes ... I've never gone back to use a specific fw download a second time. And I can't believe that Leica is actually posting newer updates for these obsoleted camera models, at this point in time.

G

 

[former member]

So Brian, I'm curious. I know that you like to hack firmware so I understand why you might want to have a copy of the installer file: to enable multiple installs of differently hacked firmware.

But ... What's the point of someone who doesn't do that having a copy of the fw download if they've already got the latest version installed? I've always saved the download files for fw I've installed, for all my cameras, but mostly for the track of associated notes ... I've never gone back to use a specific fw download a second time. And I can't believe that Leica is actually posting newer updates for these obsoleted camera models, at this point in time.

G

I'm not hacking the Leica firmware.
The point of having the latest version of firmware saved is if the Camera needs a firmware reload. I've seen situations where the camera got into a bad mode and reloading the firmware reset the condition.

So now- I have the latest for the M9 and M Monochrom that were loaded by Leica with the installation of the new CCD and circuit board- in case I need to reload them.

 

[former member]

Thank you! Got last M-E firmware and instruction on google drive.
Doesn't look they kept M8 fw.

I found 2.024 for the M8 on another site, and have it if anyone needs it.

Download Leica M8 Camera Firmware 2.024 for OS Independent

Download Leica M8 Camera Firmware 2.024 (Digital Camera / Webcam / Camcorder)

drivers.softpedia.com

 

[Duofold RF]

it probably take forever or never to see a Chinese made digital M. The mainland Chinese are good at reversing engineering, a digital camera needs more than CNC parts manufacturing, software, microprocessors, microelectronics et al are important to design and manufacture a digital camera. Japan has better chances and they know How

 

[former member]

The 7artisans 50/1.1 and 75/1.25 M-Mount lens are original designs; the TTArtisans 50/0.95 is an original design, the Mitakon 90/1.5 is an original design. You will not find the optical formula used in these lenses anywhere else. The LLL lenses are reverse-engineered copies, and state as such.
I very much like the adjustable cam mechanism in these lenses. Makes life easy. I can optimize a lens for the color of the filter used on the M Monochrom.
I agree the Chinese are good at reverse engineering- but most of the lenses being manufactured in China are not reverse engineered from existing designs, and producing such fast optics is not a trivial task. Any of the companies that can produce a mount to work correctly across range can produce a Rangefinder camera - if they wanted to.

 

[TL7]

The time to do a new Chinese RF is now..
Probably in the next couple of years would be the ticket..
Someone there has to be thinking..
Leica $9K...
Pixii...$3K...
Chi-leica...$2.5K...
Hmmmm...

 

[Duofold RF]

In the era of computer aid lens design, anyone can use program to optimize a lens design, unfortunately, despite use exotic glass, the Chinese designers are still unable to match the best from Germany and Japan, the adjustable cam is a make up for poor tolerance of batch lenses. Lens design is art, like produce wine.

 

[boojum]

Many of you may not remember but there was a time when there were howls of "the Japanese are very good at reverse engineering." The LIFE magazine team covering the Korean War went out with Leica cameras and Leica lenses and came back with Leica cameras and Nikon lenses.

Shockley and a few others invented the transistor in California. Lots of countries make them now. The Wright Brothers invented the airplane. The list goes on. The question is that once one has mastered the craft by copying what they do going forward. As has been noted the Chinese are making innovative new lenses. And while Pixii can be dismissed as a cheap Leica it is not. It is a rangefinder camera. It has a rectangular shape. It is a Leica M-mount. That's about it.

 

[boojum]

The Downloads for the M-E/M9 and M Monochrom are still on the download site. The M9 download is under M-E, but is obviously for both-
"m9-1_210.upd".

Downloads | Leica Camera US

leica-camera.com

BUT- select "ALL" for the category, not "Leica M System". Start at Page 5. I just downloaded the files for the M9 and M Monochrom to have a copy. I have the latest for the M8, so did not keep looking. I created a "Leica Firmware file" directory on the computer.

Brian, I followed your instructions and found firmware 1.2.1.0 while my M9 is at 1.2.1.6.

 

[former member]

1.216 adds:
Thambar-M 90 f/2.2 • Noctilux-M 75 f/1.25 ASPH.

Download Leica M9 Camera Firmware 1.216 for OS Independent

Download Leica M9 Camera Firmware 1.216 - Digital Camera / Webcam / Camcorder

drivers.softpedia.com

The latest for the M Monochrom is 1.022, found on the Leica site. Mine is at 1.016.

There are a number of sites that seem to be dedicated to preserving drivers and firmware. I've found stuff for long-discontinued cameras and computer boards.

 

[Duofold RF]

The Nikon lenses are knock off of or copy of Zeiss designs, the high contrast zeiss copies were cheaper and better for conflict zone reporting.

 

[former member]

The Nikon lenses are not copies, they are based on the Sonnar block diagram. They are made to a different focal length than the Zeiss lenses. The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 is an original formulation, pushed past F1.5 and used different glass. The Nikkor 5cm F1.5 was formulated in 1937, and appears to use German glass.

Very few lenses are 100% copies, you need the same glass, exact thickness, spacing, and surface curvature. The original KMZ J-3 is an optical copy, in a much improved focus mount. I've remounted original LTM Sonnars into J-3 focus mounts. The latter are better engineered.

 

[Johngwill]

The Downloads for the M-E/M9 and M Monochrom are still on the download site. The M9 download is under M-E, but is obviously for both-
"m9-1_210.upd".

The last firmware update for M9/M9-P is ver. 1.216 and is not on the Leica web site. It can still be downloaded from 3rd party sources eg: Download Leica M9 Camera Firmware 1.216 for OS Independent

 

[Duofold RF]

hahaha, Brain the Chinese copy cats will be happy to call you as an expert witness when they were accused infringed a patent.

 

[boojum]

The last firmware update for M9/M9-P is ver. 1.216 and is not on the Leica web site. It can still be downloaded from 3rd party sources eg: Download Leica M9 Camera Firmware 1.216 for OS Independent

Thank you

 

[boojum]

it probably take forever or never to see a Chinese made digital M. The mainland Chinese are good at reversing engineering, a digital camera needs more than CNC parts manufacturing, software, microprocessors, microelectronics et al are important to design and manufacture a digital camera. Japan has better chances and they know How

If China can land a craft on the moon I think that a mechanical rangefinder camera is well within their grasp should they desire to build one. Would they have this desire? IBM stopped making mechanical typewriters because that while they were good they were so difficult to maintain, and then came the PC. This direction of evolution can be applied to cameras. Why screw around with expensive and difficult parts when it can be done with a chip? Pixii has come to that solution. I do not think this evolution will end with them. It has already been proven as a better way.

 

[Duofold RF]

Agree, boojum, in fact, Chinese already made a canon 7 + Leica M4 film knock off rangefinder called Red flag 20. Put a craft on the moon is nothing to do with civilian products, if you make a digital M but cost more than Leica‘s no one will buy it.

 

[former member]

hahaha, Brain the Chinese copy cats will be happy to call you as an expert witness when they were accused infringed a patent.

The patent for a lens is very specific and is for the optical prescription of a lens, as my most senior optical engineer called it.

Using a computer the design a lens requires much input from the engineer, I know first hand from watching them at work. The engineer drives the trade-offs. Manufacturing the optics takes a lot of precision work, and designing and manufacturing the mechanical fixtures requires a lot of design work and precision. The adjustable cam replaces what many technicians had to do when "Zeroing" a set of lenses to a body, that is what Bill Pierce wrote about decades ago. I understand that completely- and used to tell people if they want a lens shimmed to more precision that what I could do, I needed them to send their camera. The adjustable cam is brilliant.

SO- if anyone wants to know if a Chinese, German, Russian, Japanese, UK, American, or French lens violates a patent- Send it to me, along with the lens that it is believed to be in violation of. I will have a lot of fun comparing the two lenses including taking them apart for full analysis. I also get to keep them for the effort, and there will be no charge for the labor. I will provide a written/detailed report.

 

[former member]

Agree, boojum, in fact, Chinese already made a canon 7 + Leica M4 film knock off rangefinder called Red flag 20. Put a craft on the moon is nothing to do with civilian products, if you make a digital M but cost more than Leica‘s no one will buy it.

I have the Pop Photo review of that camera. It is very interesting, but would not call it a knockoff. Wish I had one with the full set of lenses.

The TU-4 was an exact copy of the B-29. The original Huawei OS included code from Cisco that duplicated an original Bug in it. Those were copies, and the Cisco code was stolen and the B-29 was one that landed in the USSR during WW-II. The ZK Sonnars were assembled from parts from Germany- not a copy, all original assembled in the USSR. The Jupiter-3 focus mount is an improvement, but the original optics and Barrel- either from original German parts and optics. Later, German glass cut and coated using the original equipment.

I was one of those kids that took everything apart, all my toys, broken cameras, etc. So- 60 years of experience with reverse engineering stuff.

But- of the Chinese lenses that I own, none are copies and none violate any patent on an optical formula. "Look and Feel"? It's kind of like the Lawsuit that Harvey Comics brought against the Ghostbusters for drawing a Ghost that looked like Casper. There are only so many ways to make a lens for a Rangefinder camera.