Why Does Leica Not Make AE M Lenses?

[wlewisiii]

Godfrey, I must be lucky as well. I've had my 240 freeze to the point where I had to pull the battery twice since I bought it but none of the other problems I've heard described here. Perhaps I don't push my camera as hard as some do, not as many edge cases, etc but I certainly don't have that beta feel either. I consider myself lucky and simply enjoy my camera as much as I did my CL & IIIf once upon a previous life.

 

[pgk]

For beta feel you cannot beat a Kodak DCS. I had one of the last models with its over complicated menus and had to 'reboot' it during virtually every shoot. Surprisingly good images for its era but finally too infuriating to use. My M9s need a reboot perhaps twice a year although I suspect that part of this might be down to the SD cards .....

 

[Sonnar Brian]

M11 freeze issues [Merged]

This might be my first post here, so hello everybody! I took 3-4 frames with my new M11 and then the camera froze. Froze as in un-responsive - even when I switched the camera off. I was about to take out the battery when the camera came back to life 30 seconds later and rolled off a frame all by ...

www.l-camera-forum.com

You get all sorts of combinations of firmware rev levels that interact in an unpredictable fashion with different rev levels of hardware components. This can even go as far into the SD card being used in the camera. SO- Firmware at the same rev level acting differently depending on the exact rev level of hardware components- I've seen it. A lot of it in 45 years on the job.

The last Nikon camera that I had to pull the battery from the camera to unfreeze it was the N8008. When the last frame was exactly at the end of a roll the camera could not sense that it was at the end and engage rewind. Using the rewind button did not work, and the off switch did not work- it was frozen, drop the batteries for 30 seconds, re-insert, turn the camera on, immediately use the rewind buttons.

You should not have to drop the battery from an embedded device to fix the problem. That's what Watchdog Timers are for. I have never had to drop the battery from the M9 and M Monochrom. The firmware bug is with the delay in cocking the shutter after the exposure is made. For a camera- that is bad.

 

[wlewisiii]

I have had my 240 eat more than a couple of SD cards though that hasn't happened since I started buying only the San Disk 16 gb Class 4 SDHC cards you linked to at some point a while back 🙂 Only real problem I've had with Leica (knocking on my head since that's the closest wood 😉

 

[Coldkennels]

For beta feel you cannot beat a Kodak DCS. I had one of the last models with its over complicated menus and had to 'reboot' it during virtually every shoot. Surprisingly good images for its era but finally too infuriating to use.

God, I hated those things. I can't remember which model I had but it basically put me off digital cameras for life.

I recently had to take over filming mid-event, and the videographer was using some Canon DSLR - again, no idea what model. I couldn't even figure out how to change the aperture without looking through an online PDF of the manual (no aperture ring on the lens). I don't know how people tolerate a lot of these things.

 

[ptpdprinter]

PS: I'm thoroughly delighted with my Leica M cameras.

Okay, that's the fifth time you have offered just about exactly the same opinion.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Leica cameras have a real "Beta release" feel about them. You would think that with so many people testing them, bringing problems to their attention, that they would fix them. ...

Setting "fit and finish" aside, I've found this often to be true with Leica.

It was certainly with the case with the M8 with all it's early bugs (including the disastrous IR issue); the M9 had initial (and later) issues; the M240 had early bugs (and its video function was haphazard). Even the M10, although less so, had some issues relating to its ISO dial. And it seams many of the initial M11 cameras were received DOA or died within the first few months of ownership.

Leica is too quick to announce and release (and then catch up) without proper beta testing.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Perhaps if enthusiasm for Leica, the only currently volume manufacturer of rangefinder cameras both film and digital, and their M camera products on the is Rangefinder Forum nauseating to you, the RangeFinder Forum isn't where you should hang out.

G

I don't find the members and content of RFF taken as a whole nauseating. There are some nice, well-spoken, knowledgeable members here that post useful information. As I said, however, I do find the incessant glorification of Leica by members of what can only be characterized as a cult nauseating. I've put most of them on ignore. If you don't want to hear from members who have had a bad experience with Leica, you could put them on ignore too. That way you wouldn't get upset.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Setting "fit and finish" aside, I've found this often to be true with Leica.

It was certainly with the case with the M8 with all it's early bugs (including the disastrous IR issue); the M9 had initial (and later) issues; the M240 had early bugs (and its video function was haphazard). Even the M10, although less so, had some issues relating to its ISO dial. And it seams many of the initial M11 cameras were received DOA or died within the first few months of ownership.

Leica is too quick to announce and release (and then catch up) without proper beta testing.

Finding Test Engineers that are good at doing testing for embedded systems is difficult, you just about need to train them up for it. I had one trained up, figured he'd come to work for me and I'd retire. He called one day- had been recruited by a Contractor at a premium salary. I can state that his internship with me got him an extra $10K a year on top of a Computer Engineer's starting salary. I'm very proud of him, told him if he needed a reference I'd gladly tell the company he has a job waiting for him and they better treat him right.

I think Leica prefers handing out their pre-release cameras to people that will not find and document errors for their developers to fix. I took my Bertele Sonnar apart the second day using it and changed the calibration, the lens was intentionally optimized for about a stop down. That change is going into the production lenses. My field of expertise is finding errors in embedded firmware.

 

[ptpdprinter]

In fact, none of my local photographer friends who have digital M cameras have ever had any problems with them (thats about 35-36 folks in my photo workshop group which has 243 members).

What is a "photo workshop group"? I have heard of a photo workshop, but never a "photo workshop group". Is it a camera club that doesn't want to be called a camera club? Sounds like it since it has 243 members. Do you have a link to its webpage so I can review what the "photo workshop group" offers?

 

[Godfrey]

What is a "photo workshop group"? I have heard of a photo workshop, but never a "photo workshop group". Is it a camera club that doesn't want to be called a camera club? Sounds like it since it has 243 members. Do you have a link to its webpage so I can review what the "photo workshop group" offers?

My photo workshop group is a loosely coordinated organization of 243 photographers who participated together in a variety of photo workshops offered over a five year period at Stanford University. It is a very diverse group of skilled photographers, about half of whom are making a substantial part of their living from their photography.

There is no website; we have a private mailing list. We meet every few months in person to show work, discuss equipment, techniques, business needs, etc. Probably about 1/4 of the group attends every meeting.

Members of the group are very responsive to queries posed via the email list. It is a group of motivated, helpful, and informed photographers who all respect one another and lend each other their experiences and expertise without ulterior motives or bickering.

G

 

[ptpdprinter]

My photo workshop group is a loosely coordinated organization of 243 photographers who participated together in a variety of photo workshops offered over a five year period at Stanford University. It is a very diverse group of skilled photographers, about half of whom are making a substantial part of their living from their photography.

There is no website; we have a private mailing list. We meet every few months in person to show work, discuss equipment, techniques, business needs, etc. Probably about 1/4 of the group attends every meeting.

Members of the group are very responsive to queries posed via the email list. It is a group of motivated, helpful, and informed photographers who all respect one another and lend each other their experiences and expertise without ulterior motives or bickering.

G

I tried to do some research but my efforts were largely unsuccessful. I could not find any photo workshops offered at Stanford. I did find that the Stanford Continuing Studies program offers some photo classes to the community. Some of those classes are one day, some are one day a week for a number of weeks, some are online, and some are in person. Is that what you are referring too? If so, do you just have to take one of those classes to join the group, or is there something else that is involved? It sounds like a nice resource.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I have no local lab. Need to drive four times to get it done. And honestly, I never experienced "film is fun" thing. Shooting was nice, the rest is just repetitive, time consuming routine. The only reason why I spend 2012-2022 on three rolls per day or week is because I'm fascinated by BW darkroom prints. Switching weekly between film and digital never worked for me. With film I have to use regularly one and only film camera and film brand, ISO to have predictable results. I don't even want to change focal length much, because I'm not a cropper.

But I understand, for many the operation process is fun. Would Winogrand still use film M? He mostly liked been taking pictures, doesn't seems darkroom much.
Here is something very sufficient with film M, which has smooth shutter speed dial (not all of them have it, but digital ones all comes with smooth shutter speed dial) and lens with light to move focus tab, aperture ring. It is not Nikon F feel of agricultural machinery. I feel much confident with film M than with digital M. But every time I want to use it, the huge amount of time to get result on darkroom print stops me.

about that agricultural machinery.....

 

[das]

about that agricultural machinery.....View attachment 4824470

Damn, my Pentacon Six is jealous of your cold shoe.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Damn, my Pentacon Six is jealous of your cold shoe.

It's not mine..... just an internet photo to reply to Ko.Fe.'s comment about 'agricultural machinery.'

 

[bjorke]

Perhaps if enthusiasm for Leica, the only currently volume manufacturer of rangefinder cameras both film and digital, and their M camera products on the RangeFinder Forum is nauseating to you, the RangeFinder Forum isn't where you should hang out.

G

Charming. Perhaps the "forum" in the RFF name is a giveaway?

Is there a goal here other than to e-attack people for having their own opinions (based on their own flesh-and-blood experiences, no less)? I am puzzled.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Every brand has its zealots, haters, evangelists, realists, cheerleaders, and trolls.

Leica- no different. Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fuji, too many to name. The Internet just gave them all a soap box to shout from.