Thypoch lenses from China

[Doug]

Interesting thread, though it has gotten a bit hot under the collar at some points.
I'm reminded of an incident a dozen years ago while walking out of Marine World in San Diego. A man caught up with me and asked what kind of camera I was carrying. It was a Leica S2 medium format DSLR with tape over the name to avoid this very situation. I just said it was an SLR; he thanked me and hurried on. I briefly felt a little bad in stiffing him like that, but...

 

[Archiver]

The lenses being discussed in this thread are original designs, are not copies of Leica or any other lenses. As much of a copy of a Leica lens as a Leica Summicron is a copy of the TTH Opic. The mechanism for indicating DOF was used long ago, I had one for an old movie camera.

The marketing of the new lenses- language and culture barrier at work. Needs work to not seem like a Youtube Meme of lens ads.
What the company needs to do - get them into hands of people that will shoot with them, some of the better online reviewers.

Thypoch lenses are already in the hands of YouTube reviewers like Benj Haisch and Matt Osborne, and their reviews are out now.

Admittedly, Thypoch's marketing rather appeals to me, lenses with character for documenting one's life.

 

[Duofold RF]

Interesting thread, though it has gotten a bit hot under the collar at some points.
I'm reminded of an incident a dozen years ago while walking out of Marine World in San Diego. A man caught up with me and asked what kind of camera I was carrying. It was a Leica S2 with tape over the name to avoid this very situation. I just said it was an SLR; he thanked me and hurried on. I briefly felt a little bad in stiffing him like that, but...

That’s an interesting story. One day I carried a modified canon 7, a guy asked me what kind canon rangefinder it is, prototypes? I told him, no it is a butchered canon 7 because the selenium meter stopped to work. I never liked Leica SLR, compared to Nikon, the mirror action one sounds like suffered from ED and BPH, and the other sounds like 20 year-old college guy.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Thypoch lenses are already in the hands of YouTube reviewers like Benj Haisch and Matt Osborne, and their reviews are out now.

Admittedly, Thypoch's marketing rather appeals to me, lenses with character for documenting one's life.

Are you going to buy one? Or more?
If so, would be nice to open a review thread here.

One would want to draw a parallel between the Chinese companies producing these lenses today, and post-war Japan. There is a huge difference: The economy of Post-War Japan was saved by their camera industry, and other industries that could turn out products that used little material and where labor intensive. With China- the current crop of lens makers are aiming at a small but affluent market of camera enthusiasts. The lenses being turned out represent good performance for the money, but are not as good as the products from Leica, Cosina, and Zeiss. @Duofold RF has posted that among the Chinese forums that the reception has been negative. SO- watching this market, will be interesting to see of a Chinese company can produce a lens that is as good as the 50/1 Nokton or 50/0.95 Noctilux, and if so- what the price will be. It will need to be an original design, "Optical Prescription" (as my Optical Engineer called it) not just a copy of another lens, as is the LLL 50/1.2, to gain respect. For their domestic customer, it seems they will need to produce a world-class lens, not a less expensive lens that is fun and cheap enough to pick up on easily disposable income. Most of the Chinese lenses I bought fall into the latter category- TTArt 50/0.95, 7Art 50/1.1 and 75/1.25, and Mitakon 90/1.5. I sold my Canon 85/1.5 for more profit than all of those lenses cost together.

 

[Slumgullion]

@Duofold RF has posted that among the Chinese forums that the reception has been negative.

If you've ever seen youtube comments on lens reviews (or anything for that matter), you'll know there is often a good bit of negativity (also, internet sanity rule: never read the comments section). Stating that the reception has been negative, at-large, is likely not true. It's just a small part of the story. Detractors often end up sounding the loudest (or most repetitive...have you heard the one about mass-produced imitation purses/watches selling on the streets of NYC as they pertain to small-batch, high-end replica camera lenses?...I have, on this forum...a few dozen times...by the same three or four people...for example).

Back to the matter at-hand: credit to Typoch to bringing 'their own' spin on an industrial design from the past. It's fun looking at some of the Voigtlander lenses and guessing the inspiration behind their exterior designs (the 35/2.5 ltm pancake = Canon 35/2 ltm, the V1 50/1.5 M = vintage Voigtlander Nokton, etc).

Having more options is always better. The price point seems fair for what the Typoch lenses are. I don't think I am in the market for something new at the moment, but the 28/1.4 seems quite interesting.

If I were to nitpick, the font choice with Thypoch and the Artisans brands needs help. That's a small thing and certainly doesn't impact image quality. But yeah, the font choices are not nice to my eye. LLL at least gets around this by using Leica's font family. Voigtlander got it right from the beginning. Credit to them for that.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

It is nice to have a lot of choices again.

My first SLR was the Argus/Cosina STL1000, the Cosinon 50/1.8 was styled after the Pentax Takumar line. The 50/1.5 Asph Nokton LTM reminds me of classic 1960s styling, which I like. The original 50/1.5 Nokton in Prominent mount used an adapter for LTM. I always thought the v1 Nokton was much more practical compared with the "retro-look over function" 50/1.5 Nokton-M. The newer v2 50/1.5 Asph Nokton, back to practical. Sized to go well with a Leica CL.

"Back in the Golden age of Rangefinders", the 1950s, there were many companies making lenses in LTM. A number of these companies were obviously aiming at the enthusiast, offering lower-price lenses compared with Leica/Nikon/Canon. Some of these have now achieved cult status- triplets with soap-bubble bokeh, etc. Some go for ridiculous prices compared to their performance. An 85/2.8 Culminar used to go for $15 in LTM. Not anymore.

 

[Slumgullion]

It is nice to have a lot of choices again.

My first SLR was the Argus/Cosina STL1000, the Cosinon 50/1.8 was styled after the Pentax Takumar line. The 50/1.5 Asph Nokton LTM reminds me of classic 1960s styling, whci I like. The original 50/1.5 Nokton in Prominent mount used an adapter for LTM. I always thought the v1 Nokton was much more practical compared with the "retro-look over function" 50/1.5 Nokton-M. The newer v2 50/1.5 Asph Nokton, back to practical. Sized to go well with a Leica CL.

"Back in the Golden age of Rangefinders", the 1950s, there were many companies making lenses in LTM. A number of these companies were obviously aiming at the enthusiast, offering lower-price lenses compared with Leica/Nikon/Canon. Some of these have now achieved cult status- triplets with soap-bubble bokeh, etc. Some go for ridiculous prices compared to their performance. An 85/2.8 Culminar used to go for $15 in LTM. Not anymore.

Many things in still photography seem like they are 15 years behind cinematography...at least as far as trends go. I worked at a motion picture camera rental house in the LA area in 2007-2008. The top cameras at the time were the ARRI LT and ST. If memory serves, they cost about $200k+ to purchase. ARRI/Zeiss were finishing filling out the Master Prime line-up. Those lenses were in the $15-25k range...a piece. Their performance was nearly flawless.

Then, the Red One was introduced...at $30k...and suddenly 'everyone' could afford their own 4k movie camera (because initial supply was so limited, the amount of mom-n-pop owners renting out their cameras was wild). There was excitement, but some DPs were worried that they would lose their look. Previously, they could pick their lenses and filmstock and that would dictate a lot of how the final product would be rendered. The new era was digital and many were concerned that 'the look' would be created in post (very smart and forward thinking). This, in large part, spurred the renewed interest in vintage glass. They wanted to cook their look into the files...that no amount of post could undo. The Master Primes started getting rented less and less. We were scouring high-and-low trying to find Super Baltars, Canon K-35's, etc (to get re-housed). The Cooke Speed Panchros (which were always somewhat popular) became as popular as the modern (for that time) S4's.

This sea change happened in a year.

The world of gigantor (read: flawless performance, impractical size) lenses for 'still' cameras - the Otuses, the Canon RF 50/1.2, the Nikon Z 50/1.2, etc is still upon us. The newer trend, which serves as a rejection of this 'perfection,' now swings us in the opposite direction. I think there are people that just want zany, weird optical defects. Most probably want a more compact/portable solution with a reasonable trade-off between performance and smaller size. From what I've seen on-line, the Typochs fit that mold.

 

[Duofold RF]

If you've ever seen youtube comments on lens reviews (or anything for that matter), you'll know there is often a good bit of negativity (also, internet sanity rule: never read the comments section). Stating that the reception has been negative, at-large, is likely not true. It's just a small part of the story. Detractors often end up sounding the loudest (or most repetitive...have you heard the one about mass-produced imitation purses/watches selling on the streets of NYC as they pertain to small-batch, high-end replica camera lenses?...I have, on this forum...a few dozen times...by the same three or four people...for example).

You may not know the imitation/fake/replica market in Guangdong, China where next to HongKong. @Rayt may able to guide you to find the right grade and price range fake/imitation bags/watches. The high end fake can be negotiate at the shop. you pick up the movement, dial case, crystal et al. THERE IS small-batch high end fake stuff in China. BTW, my Chinese friend told me the imitate of 1966 50mm f1.2 priced around $1400 for domestic buyers, the foreigners will pay $2000. I asked why? he said QIAN DUO REN SHA, translate into English - have money but stupid. I hope this, will not insult the LLL buyers. As I posted before, if you like LLL, enjoy it.

 

[Slumgullion]

You may not know the imitation/fake/replica market in Guangdong, China where next to HongKong. @Rayt may able to guide you to find the right grade and price range fake/imitation bags/watches. The high end fake can be negotiate at the shop. you pick up the movement, dial case, crystal et al. THERE IS small-batch high end fake stuff in China. BTW, my Chinese friend told me the imitate of 1966 50mm f1.2 priced around $1400 for domestic buyers, the foreigners will pay $2000. I asked why? he said QIAN DUO REN SHA, translate into English - have money but stupid. I hope this, will not insult the LLL buyers. As I posted before, if you like LLL, enjoy it.

I guess, it's just that your argument hinges on your own biases (as does everyone's) and is based on a false equivalency. I don't think anyone buys LLL with the hopes that it would be mistaken as a Leica for the perception of wealth or clout. On the other hand, people buy knock-off luxury goods (with stolen logos) for a variety of reasons, but largely the wish that they would be viewed as wealthy or stylish because they have (what others might perceive as ) an expensive thing.

Most people buy LLL because the idea of spending $25k on an Elcan or whatever crazy money an original Noctilux is silly. I like the idea of being able to use a nicely made optic that gets me in the ballpark of a lens that I will (likely) never own.

I don't know what your other hobbies are, but I like electric guitars and all their accoutrement. The 5-7 most notable designs for electric guitars all happened in the 50's and early 60's. To this day, the core of the industry is a collection of manufactures making replicas of those early designs. There aren't many people that have an issue with that. It's a little strange to me to come on photography forums and find a handful of individuals so rankled by high-end replica camera lenses.

 

[Duofold RF]

I like your argument.
it is nothing wrong to use old design like sonnar planar Tessar formula and improve it. Cosina 35mm f1.4 followed preASPH Summilux, but Cosina did not market as replica of Leica. my colleague enjoys replica watches, why? He think the real one price is silly and crazy. Again if you like LLL, enjoy it. I just voice my personal opinions.

 

[Archiver]

Many things in still photography seem like they are 15 years behind cinematography...at least as far as trends go. I worked at a motion picture camera rental house in the LA area in 2007-2008. The top cameras at the time were the ARRI LT and ST. If memory serves, they cost about $200k+ to purchase. ARRI/Zeiss were finishing filling out the Master Prime line-up. Those lenses were in the $15-25k range...a piece. Their performance was nearly flawless.

Then, the Red One was introduced...at $30k...and suddenly 'everyone' could afford their own 4k movie camera (because initial supply was so limited, the amount of mom-n-pop owners renting out their cameras was wild). There was excitement, but some DPs were worried that they would lose their look. Previously, they could pick their lenses and filmstock and that would dictate a lot of how the final product would be rendered. The new era was digital and many were concerned that 'the look' would be created in post (very smart and forward thinking). This, in large part, spurred the renewed interest in vintage glass. They wanted to cook their look into the files...that no amount of post could undo. The Master Primes started getting rented less and less. We were scouring high-and-low trying to find Super Baltars, Canon K-35's, etc (to get re-housed). The Cooke Speed Panchros (which were always somewhat popular) became as popular as the modern (for that time) S4's.

That's really, really interesting. Thank you for this.

Very often, when I see a movie or TV show and really like the look, it has been shot with Arri/Zeiss Master Primes and Angenieux zooms. The clean, crisp yet organic look is something I love. To this end, my (foolish low budget) plan is to get a set of Zeiss Classics in EF mount, and see if I can try out a Zeiss CP.2 28-80 to see if it is worth investing in.

Back to Thypoch. Here is a glowing (pun intended) review of the Simera 35mm f1.4



Here's another



and one more, this time from Bobby Tonelli, who enjoys Leica cameras



@Sonnar Brian I'm kind of tempted to get a Simera at some stage. My 35/1.4 needs are well covered with the Distagon 35 (der Uberlens) but I'm always in the market for a very fast 28, and the Simera 28 could fit that bill.

 

[Duofold RF]

Hands-On: Thypoch Simera 28mm 1.4 and 35mm 1.4 - phillipreeve.net

Thypoch is a new manufacturer of photography lenses that entered the market in late 2023. I am having a look at their first Simera lenses for

phillipreeve.net

more review

 

[Duofold RF]

More the mom and pop stores are entering into Leica copy force, the Summicron 35mm f2 V4 copy Polar Solaron. When I was a student, people wanted ASPH which around $900-1000, V4 was less popular around $600-700

 

[Duofold RF]

* found him.

Peter Ho-Sun Chan | Producer, Director, Actor

Known for: The Warlords, Dragon, Perhaps Love

www.imdb.com

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 VS 加製七枚玉 菲林篇 | Chan'Blog 遊攝天下 解讀博文

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉之前放上A7R5 試完六千萬像素，又放上GFX 50R 試完數碼中片幅4433 SENSOR 成像圈極限。咦？好像還沒試過上菲林啊。菲林還未滅亡，玩LEICA 玩FILM 可是重中之重。為了看 Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 的菲林表現，即刻上網看看現在的菲林賣幾錢，咦，星際RAINBOW 清貨？大量KODAK GOLD 200 出售？比巿價更加便宜？？太感動了，即刻入幾卷來試鏡。當下，我完全感受到香港由治及興的好處。嗯，明的，一定會明。不明的，等買飛睇黎明。 本想找 LEICA M3 試鏡，但不知埋了去哪里。好吧，先用LEICA M6...

chan.nds.hk

Is this his brother who run this blog? he tested lots of lenses. I find his comment on LLL is hilarious. The webpage has built in translation tool for multiple languages, not perfect. Jade used by Japanese as lens element. Ba Mei Yu (jade) = 8 elements. Zhou YeSheng = LLL Mr. Zhou's noctilux.

 

[Out to Lunch]

BH, which has both the thypoch lenses on pre-order is now listing the 1.4/28 as a 'top seller'. Cheers, OtL

 

[yossi]

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 VS 加製七枚玉 菲林篇 | Chan'Blog 遊攝天下 解讀博文

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉之前放上A7R5 試完六千萬像素，又放上GFX 50R 試完數碼中片幅4433 SENSOR 成像圈極限。咦？好像還沒試過上菲林啊。菲林還未滅亡，玩LEICA 玩FILM 可是重中之重。為了看 Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 的菲林表現，即刻上網看看現在的菲林賣幾錢，咦，星際RAINBOW 清貨？大量KODAK GOLD 200 出售？比巿價更加便宜？？太感動了，即刻入幾卷來試鏡。當下，我完全感受到香港由治及興的好處。嗯，明的，一定會明。不明的，等買飛睇黎明。 本想找 LEICA M3 試鏡，但不知埋了去哪里。好吧，先用LEICA M6...

chan.nds.hk

Is this his brother who run this blog? he tested lots of lenses. I find his comment on LLL is hilarious. The webpage has built in translation tool for multiple languages, not perfect. Jade used by Japanese as lens element. Ba Mei Yu (jade) = 8 elements. Zhou YeSheng = LLL Mr. Zhou's noctilux.

Geesh! This ain't Chinese, more like HK's language. Hard time figuring out those lingo...
Any idea how to use the built-in translation tool to convert them into proper Chinese?

 

[Duofold RF]

Geesh! This ain't Chinese, more like HK's language. Hard time figuring out those lingo...
Any idea how to use the built-in translation tool to convert them into proper Chinese?

See my attach photo, there is menu on the right side you just pull the menu select the language, but I find the translation is wired

 

[Duofold RF]

BH, which has both the thypoch lenses on pre-order is now listing the 1.4/28 as a 'top seller'. Cheers, OtL

BH has relatively higher standard, the quality control should be meet certain level.

 

[Rayt]

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 VS 加製七枚玉 菲林篇 | Chan'Blog 遊攝天下 解讀博文

Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉之前放上A7R5 試完六千萬像素，又放上GFX 50R 試完數碼中片幅4433 SENSOR 成像圈極限。咦？好像還沒試過上菲林啊。菲林還未滅亡，玩LEICA 玩FILM 可是重中之重。為了看 Polar 35mm f2 國產七枚玉 的菲林表現，即刻上網看看現在的菲林賣幾錢，咦，星際RAINBOW 清貨？大量KODAK GOLD 200 出售？比巿價更加便宜？？太感動了，即刻入幾卷來試鏡。當下，我完全感受到香港由治及興的好處。嗯，明的，一定會明。不明的，等買飛睇黎明。 本想找 LEICA M3 試鏡，但不知埋了去哪里。好吧，先用LEICA M6...

chan.nds.hk

Is this his brother who run this blog? he tested lots of lenses. I find his comment on LLL is hilarious. The webpage has built in translation tool for multiple languages, not perfect. Jade used by Japanese as lens element. Ba Mei Yu (jade) = 8 elements. Zhou YeSheng = LLL Mr. Zhou's noctilux.

I don’t know. Chan is not a common Chinese name so what are the odds? 🤣

 

[yossi]

I don’t know. Chan is not a common Chinese name so what are the odds? 🤣

Chan is 陳 / 陈 in Chinese, but pronounced in another dialect known as Cantonese (the main language spoken in HK).
Chan=Chen=陳 / 陈, is the surname of many many Chinese people.

Zhou=周 is a far less common surname among the Chinese. Anyway Chan ≠ Zhou for sure.

That is AFAIK, stand corrected.