Kiev 4m shutter does not cock

[Pioneer]

I have a Kiev 4m Olympia that does not cock when the film advance is turned. Everything connected with the film advance turns when I turn the knob but the shutter does not move. The camera is probably a type 4 by the looks of it but I am not certain

I already own two excellent Contax II cameras that work just fine so I really am not interested in sending this off to someone and spending money to have it repaired. However. I would be interested in taking it apart and trying to fix it myself if someone can point me in the right direction. At one point I read where someone said there is a pin under the wind knob that is broken and needs to be replaced. But I can't find that reference again, nor the instructions of how to remove the wind knob and get to the broken piece in order to fix/replace it.

Thank you for any guidance.

 

[wlewisiii]

Start here: Contax II Repair Instructions At that point the Kiev & Contax are identical.

Enjoy!

 

[Pioneer]

I'll have to find my O'Toole repair book. I have found one difference between my camera and these instructions right away, there are no small screws around the circumference of the wind dial on my camera. There are small screws in that knob on my Contax II. Instead there are two holes in the top that look as if a small spanner wrench could be used to unscrew the center fascia around the shutter button.

What fun. 😀 I guess I'll need a couple of more tools.

 

[Kai-san]

My Kiev 4 has a shutter lock, the Kiev 4M probably has as well. Check if the shutter button is depressed. If so, turn it clockwise until it pops up. Then check if the shutter cocks.

 

[KoNickon]

When you say "the shutter does not move" when you wind, you mean the shutter curtains don't move to the cocked position? Initially I was reading that as saying "the shutter winds but doesn't fire," since you said "everything connected to the film advance turns when I turn the knob."

So I'm guessing from your description that the sprocket turns, the shutter winding knob turns, but the shutter curtains don't budge? Does the shutter wind knob turn and then stop (as if the shutter is cocked), or does the knob just keep turning?

You have a couple of Contax IIs, so I expect you're pretty familiar with what should happen, and the likely suspects. The 4M has the large black and chrome shutter speed setting/shutter wind dial, right? If so, I don't think it has the ability to lock the shutter button in the depressed position (like what Kai-san mentions).

The two holes you mention seeing on the top of the wind knob, just outside the shutter release itself, are I believe what holds the entire shutter wind/speed selector mechanism in place. So if there's a sheared-off post, very likely that's where it would have been. But if the knob turns and stops as it should, but the curtains don't move at all, I'm wondering whether you have a problem in the shutter itself (like a broken tape).

Sorry; I'm aware I'm a little bit all over the place, but I'm (hopefully) helping with narrowing down the diagnosis.

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks Kai-san. The shutter is not locked, I am not sure this model has a shutter lock. I believe this was one of the later models that were being built in the 1980s.

Thanks KoNickon - The wind knob just keeps turning and the shutter does not move. It kind of hesitates and clicks at a point in the rotation but then it moves past that and then keeps turning. The shutter button does not "pop up" or "out" so to speak, as it normally would when the wind knob gets to that little hesitation point. On my Contax II that hesitation point is at the point where my Contax II shutter begins to move and cock. That isn't happening with this one. That is why I believe that there is something sheared inside the winding mechanism, it just kind of makes sense.

I have a few other things to do today but tomorrow I am going to pull out my spanner and try to remove the wind knob and see what is or isn't in there. Part of my problem of course is that I have no reference photos that show what I should expect to see when I get in there. I'll get the digital out and take some pix tomorrow as I break (oops, I mean FIX) this camera.

Maybe the pictures from the site that @wlewisiii sent me will help when I get to that point.

 

[johnf04]

The first two digits of the serial number (in the accessory shoe) will give you the year of production of the camera.

 

[KoNickon]

Thanks Kai-san. The shutter is not locked, I am not sure this model has a shutter lock. I believe this was one of the later models that were being built in the 1980s.

Thanks KoNickon - The wind knob just keeps turning and the shutter does not move. It kind of hesitates and clicks at a point in the rotation but then it moves past that and then keeps turning. The shutter button does not "pop up" or "out" so to speak, as it normally would when the wind knob gets to that little hesitation point. On my Contax II that hesitation point is at the point where my Contax II shutter begins to move and cock. That isn't happening with this one. That is why I believe that there is something sheared inside the winding mechanism, it just kind of makes sense.

I have a few other things to do today but tomorrow I am going to pull out my spanner and try to remove the wind knob and see what is or isn't in there. Part of my problem of course is that I have no reference photos that show what I should expect to see when I get in there. I'll get the digital out and take some pix tomorrow as I break (oops, I mean FIX) this camera.

Maybe the pictures from the site that @wlewisiii sent me will help when I get to that point.

Yup, it sounds like something got bent so as you turn the knob it encounters that bent post (or whatever) that presumably would have caused the shutter curtains to move in normal circumstances. Using your spanner to remove knob will hopefully reveal the situation!

 

[Coldkennels]

The shutter is not locked, I am not sure this model has a shutter lock.

Can confirm: The 4M and 4AM do not have shutter locks. That was removed when they redesigned the advance knob.

I have a few other things to do today but tomorrow I am going to pull out my spanner and try to remove the wind knob and see what is or isn't in there. Part of my problem of course is that I have no reference photos that show what I should expect to see when I get in there.

Maybe these will help:



This is what you see after removing the shutter button itself with a pin spanner. Those three screws are annoyingly sized - a 0.23mm x 2.0mm screwdriver is what you're looking for. Wera make a 0.23x1.5 and a 0.3x2.0, but not that perfect combination. Urgh.


Removing the shutter dial gives you this. Hopefully that pin is the problem - it'll require a donor shutter speed dial, but at least you won't have to go further down.


The pin is quite long - maybe yours has lost the tip and isn't engaging fully, or the slot it sits in is worn. Or it could just be that the dial itself isn't going far down enough; that'd be a nice and simple job if it's just because those three screws were loose!

 

[Pioneer]

Can confirm: The 4M and 4AM do not have shutter locks. That was removed when they redesigned the advance knob.



Maybe these will help:

View attachment 4834161

This is what you see after removing the shutter button itself with a pin spanner. Those three screws are annoyingly sized - a 0.23mm x 2.0mm screwdriver is what you're looking for. Wera make a 0.23x1.5 and a 0.3x2.0, but not that perfect combination. Urgh.

View attachment 4834162
Removing the shutter dial gives you this. Hopefully that pin is the problem - it'll require a donor shutter speed dial, but at least you won't have to go further down.

View attachment 4834163
The pin is quite long - maybe yours has lost the tip and isn't engaging fully, or the slot it sits in is worn. Or it could just be that the dial itself isn't going far down enough; that'd be a nice and simple job if it's just because those three screws were loose!

That is absolutely awesome! Thank you so much for this. At least I know what I'm looking for now.

 

[Pioneer]

I finished taking the knob off this morning and found the post is not sheared or bent and when I insert a screwdriver into the slot where the post sits it still continues to rotate without cocking the shutter. There must be something else bent or broken in the shutter cocking mechanism. The next steps would be removing the rewind knob and pulling the top cover so that I can get to the top casting and shutter cover. I'm not sure I am ready to go any further right now since I already have two good working examples of a Contax II. Couple that with the fact that I am not exactly a camera repair person and you have a perfect recipe for a disaster.

I would like to thank all of you for the help and information you provided.

However, if anyone else is interested in playing with this camera I would be glad to throw the camera and all the pieces in a box and ship it to you for the cost of shipping. I haven't checked but anything within the continental US will likely cost about $10.

Send me a note if you are interested as I am moving on to my printing projects.