appeal of film over digital?

[shawn]

AAIfano,

The other filters I tried were B+W. The Heliopan filters marked “DIGITAL” have the UV and IR filters that pretty much remove signal I would consider “noise.”

The B+W filters did not improve my histograms in the same way as the Heliopan marked digital.

Very easy to see the difference on a digital camera and do an A-B test with changing filters as the only variable.

The IR and UV that are removed do not contain any visual information.

Cal

Curious if you have tried a hot mirror filter? They are built to block IR and UV and just pass visible. Typically meant for visible light shooting on a full spectrum camera (camera that doesn't have a built in hot mirror) but if the MM isn't really filters IR it might help.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

AAIfano,

The other filters I tried were B+W. The Heliopan filters marked “DIGITAL” have the UV and IR filters that pretty much remove signal I would consider “noise.”

The B+W filters did not improve my histograms in the same way as the Heliopan marked digital.

Very easy to see the difference on a digital camera and do an A-B test with changing filters as the only variable.

The IR and UV that are removed do not contain any visual information.

Cal

Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Calzone]

Shawn,

I have never tried a hot mirror.

Cal

 

[Dogman]

In reply to the original question, film has a long tradition and digital is relatively new. Tradition has appeal, even to the revolutionary.



..............................

 

[35photo]

HI, I currently shoot with a M10 and a few really great Leica lenses, absolutely love this setup. But lately I've been getting the bug to shoot film.

I understand all the reasons people like film over digital in terms of the shooting experience, and indeed I got a sense of those reasons when in February I got my M10 and put my Sony A7RV on the shelf (except for performance and certain photo trip photography). Switching to manual rangefinder focus has slowed down my process and made me more contemplative about what/why I'm taking a particular picture. So all good in terms of understanding that such process will continue and perhaps be enhanced if I begin shooting film.

My inquiry today is what are the attributes about a film image that others like as compared to digital. Lately I've been processing my digital images with various film-like presets, two example are posted below (taken with my 35/1.4 steel rim reissue). Is there a look with film that can't be reproduced with digital processing?

Look forward to your responses!

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-6-6-Asheville-downtown-/i-9Wkk92w/0/DVmZ82LM9MJ6HVmPCTZ4XWpK243JDMNLsZckNdpbq/O/L1002173.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-6-6-Asheville-downtown-/i-XFSKwZX/0/FWHjSpFGVPFRNvJm35Ls3BzqK8g86K3WNmCzVzK5d/O/L1002177.jpg

So I reread you opening post here… Honestly I can think of any attributes about film that I love and need all there time. I shot B&W and some color film for I don't know 25+ years or so… Just popped some B&W film in the ole M6 its been awhile we'll see how it goes.

 

[Darthfeeble]

Slow getting back, sorry. My Archives are a mess, not digitals fault but my original idea for organizing got bulky and over worked about 4 or 5 years into the adventure and hasn't gotten any better. I started filing by Camera>Date and year and quickly found that finding something was a bit difficult. I determined that the think called Keywording might have some merit but until just recently I haven't been good at being a reliable keyworder. Now I am slowly adding that to the system bit by bit and it's started to show but I'm some 50,000 + files in arrears.

 

[wlewisiii]

< whistles innocently >

 

[yossi]

"I'll be back!"

 

[Retro-Grouch]

"I'll be back!"

Like a bad penny...

 

[DownUnder]

Welcome to the club!!

Ensure all your folders are dated and the individual images dated/numbered. A brief example here. Today's shoot would be 2024_06_29 and the original images numbered 2024_06_29_01. I then copy the originals to a folder marked Originals RAW - not edited. The main images are then reduced in size to what I usually work with and renumbered 2024_06_29_##A. (## being the image number from 01).

Then I run an identifier' - like 2024_06_29_## Surabaya.

Keywords are ultra important. I input those on an automated system for all images in any one folder. I then go over my BEST and GOOD images and type in just about every keyword I can think of. This does take a little time. A glass of good red wine helps.

Why do you bother to key in the date about camera, settings etcetera? Entirely useless, to me at least. All that extra work, for what.

I do mark scans from film according to color negative CN, color slide CT or black-and-white BW. So 2024_06_29CT_##.

My system may seem tedious, but you will be amazed at how quickly you can get through a roll. Even faster if you bypass the step where I reduce the main images in size, this can be done if and when I decide to do something with the image(s). That's when the real work starts, but thankfully I don't do it for every image I have.

So yes the only other advice I would pass on is to dispense with the urge to work on each and every image. You may be very much like me in that we both think everything we shoot is worth keeping. A lifetime of hanging on to my photos has cured me of that fantasy...

Best of luck with your 50K. Better you than me, but as I see it, yours is an ideal goal for a very long life...!!

 

[shawn]

Why do you bother to key in the date about camera, settings etcetera? Entirely useless, to me at least. And all that extra work.

There is literally no extra work. It is all done automatically as that information is already stored within the JPEG/RAW files in the EXIF data. If you are cataloging by hand you are making things *much* more difficult for yourself.

The tools make this dramatically easier. Lightroom just reads that info and adds it to its database automatically when I import my files. As an example I have roughly 110k files in my library. If I select all photographs it literally shows me thumbnails of everything.





Files are automatically imported into folders based on the date shot (you can make it do something else if you want) so if I want to just see images of a specific date I just open that folder as shown below.. (37 images taken on 6-16-24). Folders do not need to all be on the same drive. I keep current stuff on my laptop and then move it all onto a NAS for long term storage. You just drag and drop the folder(s) within LR and it moves everything and updates the database.




If I want to see every shot I took on Fomapan I just select all pictures and search on Fomapan (text search top right). I instantly see every image that I added that keyword to when I imported the files.




If I want to see every image shot on my 645D with the 35mm using a 1/60 of a second shutter speed I just select that metadata and instantly have those files. I can further sort this by date or searching keywords.




And this isn't even the impressive part of tools like this.... (next post)

 

[shawn]

Lightroom has non-destructive editing. That means there is no need to keep two copies of a file (original and edited) you just have the original and the program stores the settings edits you make and when you export the picture it applies the changes to the exported file.

Want multiple versions of the file with different edits to each, make virtual copy (ies) or take what it calls a snapshot. Same deal. It also keeps the full history of every setting edit you make so at any time so you can go back and forth with your changes with ease. You can also use external editors with lightroom, in that case it will make an actual copy of the file (with LR edits already applied), add the new file to the database and that new file is then edited in the external program.

So lets take a RAW file as a starting point, we move into the develop module. (Just a demo file, not meant as an exemplar)




I jumped back to the original of this file (History on the bottom left).

Lets start off with Auto Tone to see what that does...





Not terrible, could certainly be tweaked more from here but lets see about the perspective next....






Again not bad for first shot on auto.

Lets use a preset to make the subject pop a little more (it auto masks the subject and I can change that at will)




Maybe B&W?




Notice the history in the bottom right. That is every change I have made, yet the original file is completely unchanged. LR is just showing me the results of the edit to the original file, it hasn't changed the original file at all. This is non-destructive editing.

If I want this file to share I just export it and LR creates a new file with the edits I made and it gives many file format possibilities for the export.





It can also be integrated with online photo platforms to auto sync changes you make, has full printing modules and much much more.

I mentioned that I store most of my files on a NAS (with backups). I don't even need to be connected to the NAS to see the files stored on it. Lightroom keeps a thumbnail of all the files in the database and I can still search for images and even apply preliminary editing to the file without being connected to the NAS. Obviously, I can't export without being connected but I can make adjustments and once connected again I can export with those adjustments automatically being applied.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

https://media.schott.com/api/public/content/ff3432f74d404faa94b20b8b81d41d1b?v=51ba1dc3

reading the discussion on filters on the M Monochrom, BG-55 cover glass is used in the updated CCD for the M9 and M Monochrom. Note the data sheet states it is a Near IR cutoff filter. It is not a UV filter. This glass passes UV, is good at filtering IR.
You will see a difference between a L37 and L39 filter.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

quite some side tracks from the original question.... 😛

 

[luuca]

I shot 90% film and 10% digital.
I prefer film over digital simply because it's not my job, I love the challenge, I get relaxed in the darkroom, I slow down my everyday life.

I already have to be rational on most of my decisions, please let my passions to be irrational.

 

[DownUnder]

There is literally no extra work. It is all done automatically as that information is already stored within the JPEG/RAW files in the EXIF data. If you are cataloging by hand you are making things *much* more difficult for yourself.

The tools make this dramatically easier. Lightroom just reads that info and adds it to its database automatically when I import my files. As an example I have roughly 110k files in my library. If I select all photographs it literally shows me thumbnails of everything.


View attachment 4840034


Files are automatically imported into folders based on the date shot (you can make it do something else if you want) so if I want to just see images of a specific date I just open that folder as shown below.. (37 images taken on 6-16-24). Folders do not need to all be on the same drive. I keep current stuff on my laptop and then move it all onto a NAS for long term storage. You just drag and drop the folder(s) within LR and it moves everything and updates the database.


View attachment 4840035

If I want to see every shot I took on Fomapan I just select all pictures and search on Fomapan (text search top right). I instantly see every image that I added that keyword to when I imported the files.

View attachment 4840036


If I want to see every image shot on my 645D with the 35mm using a 1/60 of a second shutter speed I just select that metadata and instantly have those files. I can further sort this by date or searching keywords.

View attachment 4840037


And this isn't even the impressive part of tools like this.... (next post)

Many thanks. A few good ideas for me here in this post. Greatly appreciated!!

I will now try to make better use of the (admittedly limited) software I used for my very basic PP work.

All this said, my ultimate goal (in this life) is to get images so perfect, digitally or scanned, that they no longer need any follow-up work.

Dream on, I...

 

[Bill Clark]

for my business 100% digital.

Process with Photoshop and iMac.

100% RAW capture with Canon DSLR.

 

[Brick33308]

I'm the OP. Wow, I had totally forgotten about this thread I posted earlier this year, and lots has changed since then. Examples are here: Leica M11 Monochrom images - Irwin

First, I ended up getting rid of the M10 and getting a M11 Monochrome that I absolutely love. I had a M10P for a while but it turned into a brick, Leica repaired it, and I promptly sold it. In its place for the limited times I want to shoot color, I got a Leica CL which I absolutely love - it's truly a great camera. Examples of images using a Voigt 40/1.4 with the L-M adapter are here: 2024-11-3 Fort Lauderdale Bonnett House - Irwin

But my biggest news is that I dived into film and am LOVING it! I still enjoy shooting digital equally, especially the M11M when paired with a vintage, character lens like the 50/2 rigid, but film is a totally different experience. First just to see how I would like it or not, I got a nice Nikon F3 plus a Nikon mount Voigt 40/2. Images from that combo are here: 2024-12-3 Key West film scans - Irwin

I like the Nikon experience so much that I bought a mint used Leica MP so that I could pair it with all my great Leica/Voigt lenses. Examples are here: 2024-12-18 Key West film scans - Irwin

And finally I got a great price on a mint used Leica M6 that was just serviced by Ye, so I got my second film camera, not just as a backup to the first, but also because it's kind of fun to keep 2 film cameras at the ready, each loaded with a different film stock.

I'm in Key West now, but. returning to Asheville in the spring. And at that time I'm going to start developing my own b/w film (maybe even color if I get really ambitious), and will be scanning with the Valoi Easy35 plus my Sony A7RV and a Sony 90 macro lens.

So bottom line: I'm thrilled and in love with film. But I'm also thrilled and in love with digital. I don't see either being mutually exclusive, and instead I just pick up whatever camera I'm in the mood for at a given time (which I'm constantly doing).

Best, Irwin

 

[JohnWolf]

A story with a happy, harmonious ending. A very nice update.

John

 

[Prest_400]

This autumn I went on a trip to Asia and took along my 6x9 medium format Fuji. Long overdue, I had this idea since 2010 of taking a medium format because it's sheer negative size and longer FL lenses just bring a different look.

During and after this, I thought it was rather mental but now I have bonded with the format even more. I do have 35mm's around but do not really shoot the format nowadays.
Even I like film color, always did hybrid, but it's a bit of a logistical PITA. B&W I do myself from dev to print and wholly recommend doing it, even bypassing scanning! I have a great community darkroom. Apropo 35mm, I find it is too many frames and don't have such a high keeper/print rate. OTOH 6x9 8 shots per roll feels sometimes a bit too short... And high "fuel" consumption.

If anything, the phone has taken the snapshooting role and I keep postponing an upgrade on the digital cameras (m43). In there I also procrastinate that a better body and some extra effort would make it a film scanner.

TL😀R for me, late Millenial, it is a combination of actually having grown with both media relatively parallel and film has an embedded tradition and "longtermism" for me; as well as really liking its diversity of palettes. I am also rather conservative with its techniques, shooting and processing as it was in the heydays; get a good negative and let the creativity in post and printing. Digital files stay like files whereas I still shoot film to print.