Rolleiflex 2.8GX Frame Start Issue

[Ordinary Guy]

I recently purchased a Rolleiflex 2.8GX, with one exception the camera is working wonderfully. I am really excited about this.

Here is the issue: The first two test rolls have cut off the 12 frame, about 1/3 of it is on the end of the roll. I believe I have pinpointed the issue: the wheel that touches the film seems to slip a lot, as though there is not sufficient pressure holding it against the film to start the counter. Whereas a normal start line to frame one should be about 2.75 cranks of the wind lever, this takes somewhere between 6 and 8. Is this a known issue?

I have been finding so little information about these cameras, with most of the information i'm finding saying "don't buy, its not a real rolleiflex" which is not really a help. I'd prefer to not send the camera back, but the seller will take it, and if I have to, I have to.

 

[Godfrey]

I have no experience with the GX model, only with older versions of the Rolleiflex TLRs.

In those older versions, there is a sensor roller that the film passes through on the bottom of the camera just before the take-up spool. This roller senses the start of the film where it is attached to the paper backing, and starts the frame counter and wind-on/double-exposure interlock. Occasionally, one of my cameras would fail to sense the film (it had become sticky) and the interlock would trigger late in a manner like you are describing. My solution was to send that camera to Harry Fleenor at Oceanside Camera Repair (Manhattan Beach, CA 90266) and have it serviced. The service then (probably 25-30 years ago) was about $150, and the camera always worked perfectly afterwards.

I hope that gives you some options for what to do next. Good luck with it!

G

 

[vitaly66]

The GX is more akin to the T model, in that there is no "automat" sensor as @Godfrey describes. To start the film at the proper position in the GX (and T), align the arrows on the film backing paper with the red dot on the camera's film gate.

@AnalogKyle 's issue is difficult to assess. The film travel sensor should normally not slip during the beginning of the roll, when the roll is at its fattest -- applying the greatest pressure to the serrated sensor wheel. If the sensor wheel spring is weak, it should be more prone to slippage toward the end of the roll, when the roll gets skinnier.

The first thing to check is if your loading procedure is being done properly. Make sure the film is taut across the film gate -- no slack between (or on) the take up and supply spool, with the arrow aligned at the red dot, before closing the film back.

I would also suggest trying a different brand/make of film, to see if the aberrant slipping behavior is consistent. Nowadays rollfilm backing paper may not be made with regard to the peculiarities of Rolleiflex cameras. Maybe some rollfilm backing paper is slippier than others now?

 

[Godfrey]

Ah, thanks! I was only vaguely aware that the GX is descendent of the T chassis, not the F chassis; you've reminded me. Long ages have passed since I was on top of Rolleiflex TLR details!

G

 

[Ordinary Guy]

The GX is more akin to the T model, in that there is no "automat" sensor as @Godfrey describes. To start the film at the proper position in the GX (and T), align the arrows on the film backing paper with the red dot on the camera's film gate.

@AnalogKyle 's issue is difficult to assess. The film travel sensor should normally not slip during the beginning of the roll, when the roll is at its fattest -- applying the greatest pressure to the serrated sensor wheel. If the sensor wheel spring is weak, it should be more prone to slippage toward the end of the roll, when the roll gets skinnier.

The first thing to check is if your loading procedure is being done properly. Make sure the film is taut across the film gate -- no slack between (or on) the take up and supply spool, with the arrow aligned at the red dot, before closing the film back.

I would also suggest trying a different brand/make of film, to see if the aberrant slipping behavior is consistent. Nowadays rollfilm backing paper may not be made with regard to the peculiarities of Rolleiflex cameras. Maybe some rollfilm backing paper is slippier than others now?

The serated wheel is at the takeup spool, the roll is at its thinnest at the start point. It is at its fattest when the roll is almost done being shot, as all the film is now on that reel.

I tightened the serated wheel and applied new locktite, as that was clear it was on there. That worked for 2 rolls. I shot a 3rd roll as a test roll (the two before i opened the camera to see where it was starting, which was correct) and it cut off frame 12 again.

I opened the side and set the tension spring for the wheel spring to be more taut, that didn't work, either.

It did appear as though the newer slickbacked paper on trix wasn't as good as older film.

I'm sending the camera back and going to continue to just use my rolleiflex 2.8D for the time being, it had a fleenor CLA in 2019 and works just fine, I have always wanted a gx so I bought one. Oh well.

I appreciate the replies. I would have just kept it and sent to harry but he won't service these cameras.

 

[Retro-Grouch]

The serated wheel is at the takeup spool, the roll is at its thinnest at the start point. It is at its fattest when the roll is almost done being shot, as all the film is now on that reel.

I tightened the serated wheel and applied new locktite, as that was clear it was on there. That worked for 2 rolls. I shot a 3rd roll as a test roll (the two before i opened the camera to see where it was starting, which was correct) and it cut off frame 12 again.

I opened the side and set the tension spring for the wheel spring to be more taut, that didn't work, either.

It did appear as though the newer slickbacked paper on trix wasn't as good as older film.

I'm sending the camera back and going to continue to just use my rolleiflex 2.8D for the time being, it had a fleenor CLA in 2019 and works just fine, I have always wanted a gx so I bought one. Oh well.

I appreciate the replies. I would have just kept it and sent to harry but he won't service these cameras.

A bit after the fact, as you've returned the camera, but if you acquire another, Key Camera in Longmont, CO supposedly works on these. My only experience is with re-celled batteries for my 6000 series cameras, but they did good work.

 

[KoNickon]

I was surprised to see that the GX has the serrated wheel frame counter mechanism, like the T/Rolleicord/Yashicamat/others. For a premium camera like the GX I would have expected it to have the film feeler Automat design like the "real" Rolleiflexes.

Nothing wrong with the serrated wheel design though -- it's quite reliable. All the more reason to wonder why a tried and true mechanism like this doesn't work properly on this example. Yes, you made the right decision to send this back.

 

[reixi]

@Ordinaryguy AKA Analogkyle.

This was my GX, which was working fine when I shipped it. I shot a roll of film and developed it so Kyle could see when he reported issues with the camera. I issued you a refund based off of you only adding loctite to the spool screw. Had I found this post earlier and known you opened the camera and made adjustments to the internals I would have never refunded you. I gave you the benefit of doubt and trusted that the issue could have been because shipping had tightened the aftermarket screw-on cable release button but it was probably just the internal screw de-tensioning that you altered. On top of all of that the leather on the entire he worked on now no longer holds onto the body frame, which was just good enought to pass an initial inspection.

When I asked you on eBay about this you lied and said you only peeled back the leather and stopped because it was above your skill set. Then when I confronted you by stating I saw you on a forum admitting you opened it all you had to say was "Ok, how would you like to proceed?". After that you stopped responding to me.

I see you have now changed you user name on here, in what I can only guess was an attempt to hide the proof.

To everyone on this forum be aware this is a possibility with Ordinaryguy AKA Analogekyle, who I will be taking to small claims court over this issue.

 

[vitaly66]

I wondered how the OP could return a camera that he had opened up and hacked on. Very dishonorable behavior

 

[KoNickon]

Wow.

 

[Rayt]

Not cool.

 

[Godfrey]

Ugh.