peterm1
Veteran
I just sold my Leica M8 
I loved it and have had it for years but have been using it less and less over the years due to its miniscule finder magnification and cropped sensor which make focusing with my diminishing eyesight a struggle and a frustrating nightmare.
So I yielded and sold (Not a bad proposition considering it's suddenly become trendy once more due to its B/W performance and prices have increased accordingly.) And I bought a Leica SL to use with my vintage lenses. This of course has an L mount. My problem is this. While its not an issue to find MF (dumb) adapters for Leica M, Nikon, Canon, M42 and the like, I also have some Zeiss ZE lenses which are in Canon EF mount but are manual focus - but like all Canon FE lenses they have no aperture ring and aperture is controlled through the camera body. This means I need an electronically equipped adapter (i.e. an AF adapter - even though I do not really need AF at this time as I have no AF L lenses in L mount.)
The problem is this...................................the original Leica SL camera seems to have been made before the "L mount alliance" between Sigma, Panasonic and Leica and it is not completely compatible with those slightly later bodies. Most adapters are made for this later standard. As a result there is a question mark hanging over most electronic adapters - will they work with this earlier camera - the Leica SL? (the first version) camera.
Most ads for such electronic adapters I have seen just make bland assertions that they are designed for L mount cameras with no specific reference to imitations on this. A few state that they are compatible with L mount camera "such as Leica SL-2, Panasonic etc. Note that in the case of Leica, the SL is not mentioned only the later SL-2 which hints that it not compatible (but who knows)) But some are specifically known NOT TO BE compatible with the earlier Leica SL camera. And only one - the Fotodiox adapter specifically says on its web page "DO NOT USE WITH ANY LEICA L MOUNT CAMERA." which is repeated a couple of times on its web site.
(I have also read some references on boards that this specific adapter - the Fotodiox has fried some SL camera's electronics. Hence I think we can reliably exclude the Fotodiox as an adapter that any sane person would try - unless of course they have better info than me (perhaps there has been an update). My camera guy who is normally extremely assiduous and reliable swears that the Fotodox is sound and good and will work but this may be an information lack on or assumption on his part because that is what he has been told.) I do not know who to believe on this and do not wish to risk fritzing a Leica SL to find out. You can see my dilemma.
Has anyone any experience that will throw light on this conundrum? i.e. Are there adapters which are KNOWN with some certainty to work with Leica SL cameras at least to the point of being able to provide aperture control, exchange of EXIF data etc.?
I loved it and have had it for years but have been using it less and less over the years due to its miniscule finder magnification and cropped sensor which make focusing with my diminishing eyesight a struggle and a frustrating nightmare.
So I yielded and sold (Not a bad proposition considering it's suddenly become trendy once more due to its B/W performance and prices have increased accordingly.) And I bought a Leica SL to use with my vintage lenses. This of course has an L mount. My problem is this. While its not an issue to find MF (dumb) adapters for Leica M, Nikon, Canon, M42 and the like, I also have some Zeiss ZE lenses which are in Canon EF mount but are manual focus - but like all Canon FE lenses they have no aperture ring and aperture is controlled through the camera body. This means I need an electronically equipped adapter (i.e. an AF adapter - even though I do not really need AF at this time as I have no AF L lenses in L mount.)
The problem is this...................................the original Leica SL camera seems to have been made before the "L mount alliance" between Sigma, Panasonic and Leica and it is not completely compatible with those slightly later bodies. Most adapters are made for this later standard. As a result there is a question mark hanging over most electronic adapters - will they work with this earlier camera - the Leica SL? (the first version) camera.
Most ads for such electronic adapters I have seen just make bland assertions that they are designed for L mount cameras with no specific reference to imitations on this. A few state that they are compatible with L mount camera "such as Leica SL-2, Panasonic etc. Note that in the case of Leica, the SL is not mentioned only the later SL-2 which hints that it not compatible (but who knows)) But some are specifically known NOT TO BE compatible with the earlier Leica SL camera. And only one - the Fotodiox adapter specifically says on its web page "DO NOT USE WITH ANY LEICA L MOUNT CAMERA." which is repeated a couple of times on its web site.
(I have also read some references on boards that this specific adapter - the Fotodiox has fried some SL camera's electronics. Hence I think we can reliably exclude the Fotodiox as an adapter that any sane person would try - unless of course they have better info than me (perhaps there has been an update). My camera guy who is normally extremely assiduous and reliable swears that the Fotodox is sound and good and will work but this may be an information lack on or assumption on his part because that is what he has been told.) I do not know who to believe on this and do not wish to risk fritzing a Leica SL to find out. You can see my dilemma.
Has anyone any experience that will throw light on this conundrum? i.e. Are there adapters which are KNOWN with some certainty to work with Leica SL cameras at least to the point of being able to provide aperture control, exchange of EXIF data etc.?
Out to Lunch
Ventor
I'd ask BH.
Archiver
Veteran
Unfortunately, I can't help you right off the bat. If either of my local secondhand dealers have a SL, I'll swing by with my Sigma MC21 and an EF lens to see if the aperture (and maybe even autofocus) works. Will let you know next week, Australia Day long weekend here.
Edited to add: this video might help:
Victor at Annie Barton 1972 used the SL quite a lot with different lenses, he may have a video that answers this question.
Edited to add: this video might help:
Victor at Annie Barton 1972 used the SL quite a lot with different lenses, he may have a video that answers this question.
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peterm1
Veteran
Thank you Archiver.
I am in Oz too......kinda. (Is Adelaide still Oz? 🤪)
I will look forward to hearing from you. It would be good to know. I already have an MC-11 for my Sony camera and like it. So, it would be a good option for me as I trust Sigma......................I am not quite so sure about some other company's offerings though given there have been reports of some adapters frying camera bodies if things go pear shaped. I am still trying to get to the bottom of that
Regards Peter
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peterm1
Veteran
Thank you for this. As a matter of fact I have already sent them a message in relation to a Vitrox Canon to L mount adapter they are advertising. I am waiting for a response. So, good thought!
I have never thought of Viltrox as a high end bit of kit I might use on a Leica but there is no point being snobbish - if it works it works and I am fine with that.Out to Lunch
Ventor
I bought the Viltrox from BH, which works fine with EF L glass on the SL2S. If BH doesn't provide a satisfactory answer, you may also ask the question on the Leica Forum. There are lots of knowledgeable members there.
peterm1
Veteran
Thanks for this OTL. I have asked on that forum but have not had a response yet so I thought I would spread the net wider. It does not surprise me that the Viltrox works with the SL2S - from what I have heard / read the SL has some differences - it being the first in this line of cameras and was earlier than the "L mount alliance" being entered into. I gather that this alliance resulted in changes to the firmware (and maybe hardware) and there is not complete compatibility between SL and later cameras. But it is nevertheless good news that it does work on your SL2S- given I am not concerned at this time about AF capability and only need the basics - Aperture control thru the camera, EXIF etc. So perhaps there is still hope. It sounds in fact as if Viltrox may be the best bet but I am still not sure.
joe bosak
Well-known
This reminds me that when I was looking at the possibility of a Leica TL or CL to use with Sigma SA lenses (thinking the Sigma SA/L adapter would surely work...) it turned out there was some incompatibility.
There is a brand XPIMAGE who do a very wide variety of adapters including an EF to L with manual iris adjustment (they are sold on ebay and aliexpress). I have not bought any of them yet - my main interest was an M645 to Sony FE affair, but it's too expensive in focal reducer form for my intended usage.
There is a brand XPIMAGE who do a very wide variety of adapters including an EF to L with manual iris adjustment (they are sold on ebay and aliexpress). I have not bought any of them yet - my main interest was an M645 to Sony FE affair, but it's too expensive in focal reducer form for my intended usage.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
If interested, I also bought a 'dumb' Urth F-L adapter that works well.
peterm1
Veteran
A few days past, I found and tried a Sigma MC 21 but it behaved as if it were dead when mounted on the SL type 601 - totally without any communication with the SL - so I now know that this is off the cards entirely.
In the mean-time I bought a "dumb" 7 Artisans Leica M to L mount adapter just to get me going - this allows me to at least use M mount glass. And as many of my other vintage lens types also have a L mount adapter for them, this allows me to stack the lens - M mount adapter + the M mount - L mount adapter as an effective way of getting my various Nikon, FD Canon, Exacta, M42 etc lenses mounted. (Though people often disparage the idea of stacking adapters in this way I have not yet seen any practical downside despite the theoretical limts. This method just works for those lenses that do not require electrical contacts to function but unfortunately does not help me with Canon EF mount lenses lacking an aperture ring.)
The Urth products seem to get pretty good reviews. The Urth made version of EF-L mount electronic adapter is advertised as being compatible with a wide range of both Sigma and Canon lenses and with the SL type 601 specifically (but interestingly they make zero mention of the later versions which were implemented after the "L Alliance" was formed which apparently have different firmware / electronics in some respects).
So I decided to buy one of these (though quite expensive - $439 AUD) after extended communications with their technical department. They still could not confirm that it would work with my Zeiss glass on an SL (i.e. for MF with aperture control only) but in the end it seemed like the best option, especially given they specifically list the SL specifically as being compatible and have many Canon/Sigma lenses listed which suggests it may work. Especially as they offer a 30 day free return service, I figured it was worth a try at least to test it. I am presently awaiting its arrival and when I get it and know more I will post here.
Archiver
Veteran
@peterm1 I hope the Urth adapter works for you. I have a few Urth adapters, but only the passive type. Pentax K to L, Leica M to L, Minolta MD to L. They all have a tiny bit of play in some form or another - the mount to the camera on all the adapters is a little 'thick' if that makes sense, as in it needs to be turned firmly into place in order to work. And the Leica M to L adapter has a bit of play in the M mount end, which doesn't seem to affect image quality, but is noticeable in manual focus.
peterm1
Veteran
Hopefully I will see soon. Many "dumb" adapters I have tried over the years have a slight amount of play in them too - even the K and F concept, 7 Artisans and TTArtisans ones which all tend to be a cut above the "no-name alternatives" in terms of their construction. Almost always this is in the rotational direction (i.e. if the lens is twisted these can be a slight amount of rotational / circumferential movement in the adapter and or the lens - I put this down to the locking pin hole in the adapter being slightly larger than the locking pin itself thus allowing this slight movement. Like you I have not found this to be deleterious - the only circumstance where I would expect it to be would be if the lens/adapter pair was being rotated as I pressed the shutter when using a slow shutter speed. Forwards and backwards movement would be much worse for obvious reasons as it might allow the lens to move out of plane with the sensor.
Incidentally, with some cheaper dumb adapters I have owned in the past, I have had one or two that had difficulty mounting on cameras in the way you mention - this is due to the underside of the lug on the adapter (which engages with a corresponding lug on the camera) being slightly out of tolerance - usually by the tiniest of tiny amounts which is enough to mess it up. With dumb adapters this can be corrected quite easily, and I have done so in the past....................I have a diamond plate knife sharpener in which the diamond plate has become detached from the plastic backing on which it is supposed to be mounted.
When removed in the above manner the diamond impregnated plate is perhaps a 0.5mm thick - thin enough to slip under the lugs on the adapter to "lap" the underside of these lugs. Sounds sketchy I know but as long as you are methodical and careful - as in making (say) five careful swipes with the diamond lapping plate on a randomly selected first lug, then after 5 (or however many you choose) then move onto the next adapter lug and repeat with the same number of swipes with the plate on the underside of that lug. Keep moving methodically round and round the adapter, several times and as you get closer, clean the adapter and test its fit on the camera every so often till it fits snugly onto the camera without having to force it. Not sure if this is feasible with an electronic adapter as the contacts may get in the way. In any event it is too expensive - I think I would prefer to just return it to the vendor for a refund given what is at stake.
joe bosak
Well-known
A bit OT: I ended up with 3 in a row recently, to attach my Olympus 80/4 macro lens to a Sigma SD1 - the only way seemed to be OM-EF, EF-M42, M42-SA. Some fits were too tight for comfort (one pair I cannot now separate) and one pair had a little movement of the type you mention, but otherwise it worked and as there are no glass components I thought it ought to be fine. Unfortunately the lens produced a very strong red or pink colour cast which I assume must be the interaction of lens optics with the foveon sensor, so just as well to have used cheap adapters in this case, as the lens doesn't do this on my Sony A7RII (which does produce casts with some of my old lenses).
analoged
Well-known
Sigma works on SL2 and up, only Novoflex EF adapter work on original SL 601
peterm1
Veteran
Yes but the Novoflex is no longer sold - unless you can find one second hand. The URTH people claim their EF to L adapter is compatible with the SL type 601 but ironically do NOT list the SL2, SL2s, Sl3 etc. as being compatible. I am about to find out - I have bought one on the basis that I can return it within 30 days with a full refund if there are any problems.
Their compatibility document (see below) contains a long list of Canon and Sigma lenses they claim to work. (For those requiring AF, I suppose the question is "How well will they work when using AF" given that many adapters may allow AF but not with all functions (e.g. single shot not continuous) or work slowly. In my case I only need functions like aperture control thru the camera as my Zeiss lenses are MF in EF mount. This hopefully helps.
peterm1
Veteran
I have kind of used 3 but not in quite such a manner. I have an M42-LTM adapter that I found somewhere years ago. I am not sure why it was developed originally but I found it useful on occasion - mostly because all other M42 adapters tend to have a large diameter and if using these with a small diameter M42 lens it can be a bit inconvenient (as well as looking odd).
On this specific occasion I mounted a Leica LTM to M adapter on it and then mounted these on a Leica M to Fujifilm adapter, making for a total of 3 adapters. I did this because at the time, while I had a Leica M to Fuji adapter I lacked an M42 one - and I lacked an LTM to Fuji adapter. It worked just fine. Nowadays I would use (say) an M42 to Leica M adapter and then match this with a Leica M to (whichever) camera system I am using. This provides great flexibility and relatively low cost given I use lots of different vintage lens types/mounts, as if I start using a new camera system all I need is to buy one Leica M adapter for that system and I will be able to then use any lens system on it.
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peterm1
Veteran
GOOD NEWS:
Despite all claims on multiple web sites that the only AF Canon EF to L mount adapter that works on the Leica SL typ601, is the Novoflex one, I have bought an Urth one and found it does work on my camera and importantly in my case also works with my Zeiss ZE lenses - which you may recall if you have followed this saga, are manual focus BUT require an electronic adapter in order to control aperture settings (and enable A and P modes if so desired.) The Urth page for this adapter lists a huge list of supported Canon and Sigma lenses as well. Eventually I may buy an AF lens and if so will get either a Canon or Sigma one since I already now have the adapter for them. it is always nice to have at least one AF lens though not critical for me as I love shooting vintage MF lenses.
One issue I had was more about how bloody Leica designs its functionality and its menus which in some respects are poor in my view - though many love the system used on the SL of having buttons that are not named but which each bring up certain sub menus. I have to grudgingly admit that does work OK once you get used to which sub menu each button activates. What bugged me though was that when I use a "dumb" adapter you can use the joystick near the top right of the camera to zoom the image for accurate focusing (always a better option for critical focus than focus peaking alone). But when a "chipped" lens or chipped adapter is mounted it switches to the bottom left function button which is impossible to reach with the right hand. I did not know this and at first thought it was an adapter problem /issue - for a couple of days it seemed that somehow the Urth adapter had turned off image zoom because the joystick option no longer worked despite me pressing it feverishly.
I did eventually discover that this "zoom" function did still work but only by using the bottom left button (no one tells you these things-least of all Leica in their documentation) but could be reassigned to the joystick in a menu setting (the ability to do this was added in a camera firmware update and Leica provides basically NO explanation in their release notes about how to do it or where the menu option to reassign it is hidden.) It took me 2 days of hunting. What I first took as a bug with the adapter turns out to be merely one of Leica's "wonderfully" quirky ways of doing stuff.
Similarly with focus peaking. To turn it on you first need to go to something called the focus assistance sub menu item to set how it will function (color, strength etc.) then, because that itself does not actually activate it, you must then hunt through the menus again to go to an entirely different unspecified button / menu setting (which again took me 2 days to find) to find the button that actually activates it. No one tells you both steps are needed or how to do it. If two steps are required, sane menu designers would put such menu items together but no - Leica seems to insist that it is better to put your settings parameters in one place but hide the option to actually activate those settings in an entirely different unspecified place (which you will remember is hidden on a button with no label at all!!!!!!!!!!!) Such are the vagaries of the German engineering mind! Vee haff vays of making you scream! (My dad was Austrian/German so I feel I can say these things!)
Anyway, after sorting those issues out the Urth adapter seems to work fine and is well made - with a metal rather than a plastic body and is comparatively heavy which gives a feeling of solidity. I did think to ask them if they bought the rights to the Novoflex one but they said no it was completely of their own design (though maybe it was back-engineered - who knows.) Kudos to the folks at Urth who were very supportive and as helpful as they could be (though because they had no experience with Zeiss lenses on their adapter they were a bit limited in that respect - but I can't fault them for trying.)
I also found a battery grip for the SL and bought that as well - a bit silly perhaps, but I am used to these things and like them. Like the camera body it is carved out of a solid block of high-grade aluminium and I can tell you that aluminium is not always as light as people claim! Together with the body and a Zeiss ZE lens mounted it is not so much a brick but more accurately a couple of bricks, coming in at 2.1 kilograms.
Despite all claims on multiple web sites that the only AF Canon EF to L mount adapter that works on the Leica SL typ601, is the Novoflex one, I have bought an Urth one and found it does work on my camera and importantly in my case also works with my Zeiss ZE lenses - which you may recall if you have followed this saga, are manual focus BUT require an electronic adapter in order to control aperture settings (and enable A and P modes if so desired.) The Urth page for this adapter lists a huge list of supported Canon and Sigma lenses as well. Eventually I may buy an AF lens and if so will get either a Canon or Sigma one since I already now have the adapter for them. it is always nice to have at least one AF lens though not critical for me as I love shooting vintage MF lenses.
One issue I had was more about how bloody Leica designs its functionality and its menus which in some respects are poor in my view - though many love the system used on the SL of having buttons that are not named but which each bring up certain sub menus. I have to grudgingly admit that does work OK once you get used to which sub menu each button activates. What bugged me though was that when I use a "dumb" adapter you can use the joystick near the top right of the camera to zoom the image for accurate focusing (always a better option for critical focus than focus peaking alone). But when a "chipped" lens or chipped adapter is mounted it switches to the bottom left function button which is impossible to reach with the right hand. I did not know this and at first thought it was an adapter problem /issue - for a couple of days it seemed that somehow the Urth adapter had turned off image zoom because the joystick option no longer worked despite me pressing it feverishly.
I did eventually discover that this "zoom" function did still work but only by using the bottom left button (no one tells you these things-least of all Leica in their documentation) but could be reassigned to the joystick in a menu setting (the ability to do this was added in a camera firmware update and Leica provides basically NO explanation in their release notes about how to do it or where the menu option to reassign it is hidden.) It took me 2 days of hunting. What I first took as a bug with the adapter turns out to be merely one of Leica's "wonderfully" quirky ways of doing stuff.
Similarly with focus peaking. To turn it on you first need to go to something called the focus assistance sub menu item to set how it will function (color, strength etc.) then, because that itself does not actually activate it, you must then hunt through the menus again to go to an entirely different unspecified button / menu setting (which again took me 2 days to find) to find the button that actually activates it. No one tells you both steps are needed or how to do it. If two steps are required, sane menu designers would put such menu items together but no - Leica seems to insist that it is better to put your settings parameters in one place but hide the option to actually activate those settings in an entirely different unspecified place (which you will remember is hidden on a button with no label at all!!!!!!!!!!!) Such are the vagaries of the German engineering mind! Vee haff vays of making you scream! (My dad was Austrian/German so I feel I can say these things!)
Anyway, after sorting those issues out the Urth adapter seems to work fine and is well made - with a metal rather than a plastic body and is comparatively heavy which gives a feeling of solidity. I did think to ask them if they bought the rights to the Novoflex one but they said no it was completely of their own design (though maybe it was back-engineered - who knows.) Kudos to the folks at Urth who were very supportive and as helpful as they could be (though because they had no experience with Zeiss lenses on their adapter they were a bit limited in that respect - but I can't fault them for trying.)
I also found a battery grip for the SL and bought that as well - a bit silly perhaps, but I am used to these things and like them. Like the camera body it is carved out of a solid block of high-grade aluminium and I can tell you that aluminium is not always as light as people claim! Together with the body and a Zeiss ZE lens mounted it is not so much a brick but more accurately a couple of bricks, coming in at 2.1 kilograms.
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Archiver
Veteran
peterm1
Veteran
Thanks Archiver. I agree about it not being elsewhere - I have searched extensively in my attempts to find out. There is relatively little about the SL specifically and what there is, is sometimes misleading or just plain confusing (due in no small measure to the tendency for people on social media to talk in attenuated language and generalizations, as well as regurgitating what they have heard or read without first - hand knowledge.) This is exactly why I thought it might be useful for me to post it.
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Godfrey
somewhat colored
Good luck with it, Peter!
I was always a skeptic and never trusted adapters with any electronics in them other than the Olympus FT to mFT adapters. On my SL typ 601, I used primarily Leica R lenses, which were almost being given away in 2011 after the R system was discontinued (I remember my local dealer had a Leicaflex SL and three lenses on consignment ... "$750 for the lenses, and I'll throw the body in free."). Those days are long gone ... lots of people have discovered how excellent all that R-gear is/was.
G
I was always a skeptic and never trusted adapters with any electronics in them other than the Olympus FT to mFT adapters. On my SL typ 601, I used primarily Leica R lenses, which were almost being given away in 2011 after the R system was discontinued (I remember my local dealer had a Leicaflex SL and three lenses on consignment ... "$750 for the lenses, and I'll throw the body in free."). Those days are long gone ... lots of people have discovered how excellent all that R-gear is/was.
G