Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
That's sad that you had to modify those Bergeon winders to make them work correctly. That set costs $1500 new!
Watch Repair
- Thread starter Chriscrawfordphoto
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That's sad that you had to modify those Bergeon winders to make them work correctly. That set costs $1500 new!
GMOG
Well-known
Many new tools for watchmakers and other trades come unfinished from the factories. The individual applies finishing touches according to their preferences.
Screwdrivers are a good example. Replacement tips come rough, not in a condition that is usable. They are left that way so I don't have to pay the factory to finish something I'm going modify anyway.
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Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
If I buy something for $1500, it godammned well better be f--king flawless. If it isn't, why pay that when you can get a Chinese copy that is just as bad for less than $100?
GMOG
Well-known
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I didn't miss anything. Bergeon tools are extremely expensive; there's no reason to pay such extortionate prices for something that is not made well. If it needs modification to make it work correctly, it is, by definition, NOT made well. You convinced me, I'll buy the Chinese version. If I have to modify them to make them work, I got what I paid for.
You have to understand: I am not wealthy. I am poor. I am disabled fro a stroke and a long list of health issues. I have barely done any photography for the last year because I was too sick to go out and work. I live with my 28 year old son who makes sure I eat every day and my doctors are paid. I would be homeless if it were not for him. I have a small income from from the donations I get from my tutorials site; that's it. I have to watch my money. I got into watchmaking to fix my grandpa's watch and to have something I could do without being on my feet aside from staring at the walls in my son's house.
If I seem a little harsh in my judgement of overpriced tools, there is a reason.
My health has begun to improve a little this year, and I actually went out photographing a few days ago for the first time in a month. Hopefully things will get better. In the meantime, playing with old watches has given me something productive to do. I am not someone who can handle being useless and dependent on my family. My son makes VERY good money, more than I have ever earned. He's a software engineer. He doesn't mind supporting me; I raised him by myself, his mother has been gone completely from his life for a long time. I still feel like I am a burden on him, but having something useful to do makes me happier.
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KoNickon
Nick Merritt
This reminds me of the first chapter of Tomosy's "Camera Maintenance and Repair" book, where he basically tells me, the reader, to make my own tools, or at least significantly modify existing tools, in order to perform repairs. Huh? I get the idea that those experienced in working on cameras may out of necessity or preference fabricate some specialized tools, but don't tell me, a novice, that I have to do so.
Similarly here -- yes, I may wish to modify watch screwdriver tips, but for the kind of money Bergeon is charging, I would certainly expect them to provide tools that do the job without modification for 95% of the situations I may encounter. If it's a matter of their tools leaving the factory not adequately finished, then as you say, the Chinese product wins out.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I have a friend who has been a camera repairman since the 70s. He told me a long time ago that many camera manufacturers made their cameras to be repaired with special tools the camera company made themselves. Some companies wouldn't sell these tools to independent shops, some would; but those who would sometimes charged ridiculous prices. This became a bigger problem for repair shops that worked on cameras made before the shop existed; the special tools were no longer made and often rare/impossible to find secondhand. In cases like that, repairmen made their own tools. That's understandable, and probably is why Tomosoy said that.
A widely available, still made tool should 'just work.' Especially since watch companies didn't generally use proprietary tools like camera makers often did.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
For a time, I worked as an automotive and motorcycle mechanic. Tools are a hugely important part of the game ... the high-end tools make work (and life) a lot easier by being nicer on the machinery and better in your hands.
BUT ... Even in the best of situations with the best tools, a huge number of them have to be modified to work best for your specific preferences or the needs of particular jobs. It's the nature of the beast, IMO.
I still modify stuff all the time to suit me and/or what I'm doing best, whether it's hand tools for working on the car/moto/bicycle or camera gear, or whatever. I do it so often that I often don't even remember having done it. Doesn't matter what I paid for the tool... 😉
G
BUT ... Even in the best of situations with the best tools, a huge number of them have to be modified to work best for your specific preferences or the needs of particular jobs. It's the nature of the beast, IMO.
I still modify stuff all the time to suit me and/or what I'm doing best, whether it's hand tools for working on the car/moto/bicycle or camera gear, or whatever. I do it so often that I often don't even remember having done it. Doesn't matter what I paid for the tool... 😉
G
Jonathan R
Well-known
+1. I have zero ambition to repair watches, but his videos are like a kind of relaxation therapy for me.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
My feeling as well.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I decided to reassemble the Elgin pocket watch without a second hand. In an earlier post, I mentioned that I broke the post that carries the second hand, which is an extension of the fourth wheel's spindle. I had hoped to buy another fourth wheel, but it seems to be made of unobtainium; NO ONE has one for sale. Anywhere. The old fourth wheel still works perfectly well as part of the watch's gear train, so I reinstalled it and finished putting the watch back together. It works in all respects, except that for now it has no second hand. If I find a fourth wheel for it, I'll buy it and install it in the watch at that time.
For now, I have it regulated damn near perfect! It has 0ms of beat error (PERFECT!) and the rate is +3 seconds a day. When I received the watch, it would not run at all. When I reassembled it after cleaning and relubricating it, I discovered that the reason it would not run was that the beat error was astronomically high. Now it's running like new. If anyone has a fourth wheel for a Unitas 6431 or 6445 (they're the same part) they'd like to sell, let me know please!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Good News!
I found a new fourth wheel for the Elgin watch. Someone had a cheap off-brand pocket watch on Facebook marketplace here in Fort Wayne that had the same movement as the Elgin, and they sold it to me really cheap. The movement had a good fourth wheel, so I took it out and put it in the Elgin and reinstalled the Elgin's seconds hand; so that watch is 100% restored to working order now. There were a couple of broken parts in the watch I bought for the part, so I just disassembled the rest of it and added the good parts from it to my parts collection.
New Project:
I have begun work on servicing a Vostok Amphibia watch. I bought this watch last year from Scuba Dude Store, an American company that sells Vostok watches. It had a problem that caused the hands to move slightly when screwing the crown back down after setting the time. I asked them to exchange it; and they told me that they would send me another, and that I could keep the bad one as well. Wonderful service! The replacement has worked flawlessly; but I held on to the bad one to repair after I got some experience. This is the most complex watch I have worked on thus far (July, 2025); it has an automatic movement and a date function. It is the first watch that I have serviced with either of those features.
When I disassembled the watch enough to see the keyless works, I found that it worked fine outside of the watch case. That made me think the stem might be too short to completely disengage the setting wheels until the crown was almost completely screwed down. I got out the replacement watch that Scuba Dude Store sent me and removed its stem and crown to compare them. The stem in the bad watch was slightly shorter than the one in the replacement. Unfortunately, there are no parts available in the US for these watches, and there is no way to lengthen the stem.
I decided to finish disassembling the movement, and to give it a a full service. I wanted the practice in working on automatics and on watches with a calendar system, without worrying about messing something up on an expensive watch. I have another copy of this one that works flawlessly; so if I mess it up, I won't cry too much. I made a video of the disassembly process. Once I get the parts cleaned, I'll reassemble it and post a video of that, too.
I found a new fourth wheel for the Elgin watch. Someone had a cheap off-brand pocket watch on Facebook marketplace here in Fort Wayne that had the same movement as the Elgin, and they sold it to me really cheap. The movement had a good fourth wheel, so I took it out and put it in the Elgin and reinstalled the Elgin's seconds hand; so that watch is 100% restored to working order now. There were a couple of broken parts in the watch I bought for the part, so I just disassembled the rest of it and added the good parts from it to my parts collection.
New Project:
I have begun work on servicing a Vostok Amphibia watch. I bought this watch last year from Scuba Dude Store, an American company that sells Vostok watches. It had a problem that caused the hands to move slightly when screwing the crown back down after setting the time. I asked them to exchange it; and they told me that they would send me another, and that I could keep the bad one as well. Wonderful service! The replacement has worked flawlessly; but I held on to the bad one to repair after I got some experience. This is the most complex watch I have worked on thus far (July, 2025); it has an automatic movement and a date function. It is the first watch that I have serviced with either of those features.
When I disassembled the watch enough to see the keyless works, I found that it worked fine outside of the watch case. That made me think the stem might be too short to completely disengage the setting wheels until the crown was almost completely screwed down. I got out the replacement watch that Scuba Dude Store sent me and removed its stem and crown to compare them. The stem in the bad watch was slightly shorter than the one in the replacement. Unfortunately, there are no parts available in the US for these watches, and there is no way to lengthen the stem.
I decided to finish disassembling the movement, and to give it a a full service. I wanted the practice in working on automatics and on watches with a calendar system, without worrying about messing something up on an expensive watch. I have another copy of this one that works flawlessly; so if I mess it up, I won't cry too much. I made a video of the disassembly process. Once I get the parts cleaned, I'll reassemble it and post a video of that, too.
santino
FSU gear head
It is a bit of a gamble (like with fsu cameras): if you are lucky, the Vostok movements are a really good bang for the buck. I‘ve noticed that most of this watches, when they have problems, the winding mechanism is affected.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I have a bunch of Vostoks; I've only had a couple bad ones. This one I am repairing now and another whose timekeeping is erratic; I think it wasn't lubricated properly at the factory (I bought it new last year), so I am going to service that one later. Most Vostok need to be regulated, they don't do that very well at the factory, but aside from that most have been mechanically sound.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Finally finished servicing my Crawford watch! I tore it down to bare parts, cleaned them, replaced a couple of bad parts, reassembled and lubricated it, then adjusted it for accurate timekeeping.
I've collected watches for 30 years and just recently learned that there had been a Crawford watch brand in the 50s and 60s. Of course, I had to have one! I got this one on eBay, but it needed some work. It was running sluggishly, the case was dirty, and the crystal was covered in scratches. Its looking pretty nice now, though the case has some of the finish worn off, as is common with 60+ year old watches. This was was made in the early 1960s.