New Kodachrome? New Peel-Apart Instant Film?

[Mackinaw]

I don't know much about Light Lens Lab, but they appear to be quite serious about producing a whole range of new film in several different formats. This update is very interesting:

Film Project Update III - New Emulsion, 2025 Goals

Jim B.

 

[Godfrey]

It will be interesting to see what comes of their work.

I do wonder if there is really enough market audience for peel-apart instant film, given that said format was abandoned nearly a bazillion years ago. That said, I still do have a Hasselblad back for instant print pack film... 😉

G

 

[Cascadilla]

I would be interested in 4x5 and pack film peel apart film if they make it and it works well. The New 55 4x5 Polaroid attempt was expensive and also didn't work very well for me. I still have 4x5 and pack film backs for my 4x5 Toyo and would love to use them again.

 

[Freakscene]

I hope they have some success. Just bringing the regular films to market would be quite an achievement.

 

[CMur12]

A new K-14 color positive film sounds very ambitious, possibly too good to be true. (Fingers crossed, but bracing for disappointment.)

- Murray

 

[boojum]

I have been following the LLL film project for a month or so, since I got first notice. I am not as invested as some but would like to see LLL make something interesting and useful.

 

[Freakscene]

A new K-14 color positive film sounds very ambitious, possibly too good to be true. (Fingers crossed, but bracing for disappointment.)

- Murray

There is a huge difference between “a dye-incorporating development process” and “K-14”. The former they could achieve if they have the resources. The latter, well, as I keep saying, has a likelihood “approaching zero”. Even if they make a non-substantive colour film where the dye couplers are added in processing, it will be very expensive to process. If they can make decent b&w films with equivalent qa/qc to Ilford or Kodak, they will have achieved a lot.

 

[Mackinaw]

Latest update from Light lens Lab. They're making progress on developing film take-up spools, canisters and 120 backing paper.

Film Project Update IV: Finishing And Packaging

Hello Everyone, We want to bring updates to our film projects. As summer has progressed, we have made several progress in preparation of our film project. One of our main goals is to manufacture our components in-house, including film canisters, spools, backing paper, and packaging, by...

lightlenslab.com

Jim B.

 

[BillBingham2]

Thanks for the heads up folks. Interesting stuff.

 

[Freakscene]

Latest update from Light lens Lab. They're making progress on developing film take-up spools, canisters and 120 backing paper.

Film Project Update IV: Finishing And Packaging

Hello Everyone, We want to bring updates to our film projects. As summer has progressed, we have made several progress in preparation of our film project. One of our main goals is to manufacture our components in-house, including film canisters, spools, backing paper, and packaging, by...

lightlenslab.com

Jim B.

Their approach to aim for total self-sufficiency is smart and laudable. I like the way they describe how obvious things can be quite difficult, such as producing 120 backing paper that is actually light tight.

 

[Rob-F]

There is a huge difference between “a dye-incorporating development process” and “K-14”. The former they could achieve if they have the resources. The latter, well, as I keep saying, has a likelihood “approaching zero”. Even if they make a non-substantive colour film where the dye couplers are added in processing, it will be very expensive to process. If they can make decent b&w films with equivalent qa/qc to Ilford or Kodak, they will have achieved a lot.

The whole K-14 processing industry has shut down. Duane's scrapped all their machines. Others, I imagine, have followed suit. It would be expecting a lot, for all of that to come back.

 

[Freakscene]

The whole K-14 processing industry has shut down. Duane's scrapped all their machines. Others, I imagine, have followed suit. It would be expecting a lot, for all of that to come back.

K-14 will never come back. The machines are the least of it. Producing an environmentally acceptable (even in China) non-substantive colour film where the dye couplers are added in processing is a fairly formidable challenge but could be done. Machines to process it can be made, whatever the process looks like.

Inventing a process is difficult, and would be costly, and the investment-return even if you are being optimistic is probably poor. Stranger things have happened, but I'm not holding my breath. Look at what happened to Ferrania's aim of making a new E6 film.

 

[SilverInversion]

I don't know much about Light Lens Lab, but they appear to be quite serious about producing a whole range of new film in several different formats. This update is very interesting:

Film Project Update III - New Emulsion, 2025 Goals

Jim B.

I highly doubt they have the know-how to produce a new emulsion, let alone a new film altogether.
It's difficult, time consuming and lenghty process even for vendors like Ilford or Kodak.
They probably will resort to rebadge an existing film, much as Rollei does.
I hope they will not succeed for a simple reason: another new vendor means money dectracted from the major manufacturers namely Ilford, Kodak and Foma.
Forget about a new Kodachrome.

 

[Nitroplait]

I am somewhat doubtful that their high overall ambitions will materialize.
While starting from scratch may have it’s advantages, it also mean they have to make a lot of mistakes in a lot of different areas of the manufacturing.
Those mistakes has to be funded by someone; their investors or their customers. I am guessing we will see some sub-par products for a good while.
It took Fujifilm 30+ years to catch up with Kodak (according to Fujifilms previous CEO).

 

[Freakscene]

I am somewhat doubtful that their high overall ambitions will materialize.
While starting from scratch may have it’s advantages, it also mean they have to make a lot of mistakes in a lot of different areas of the manufacturing.
Those mistakes has to be funded by someone; their investors or their customers. I am guessing we will see some sub-par products for a good while.
It took Fujifilm 30+ years to catch up with Kodak (according to Fujifilms previous CEO).

Except there are numerous former Kodak and Fuji employees who know many or most of the tricks. Kodak recruited a new cohort of new production managers in 2003 assuming that film would go on and at least taper off. Of course film sales fell off a cliff. This situation was not the case when Fuji was trying to catch Kodak and they had to learn everything from first principles and trial-and-error. Those trained managers would now mostly be in their middle to late forties, and maybe would not want to have a go, but many might. The largest intake was in China for Lucky, which was at that time in a 20 year production agreement with Kodak. That got cancelled in 2007.

 

[BillBingham2]

........The largest intake was in China for Lucky, which was at that time in a 20 year production agreement with Kodak. That got cancelled in 2007.

Any background as to why?

 

[Freakscene]

Any background as to why?

Why it got cancelled or why they initiated it?

In 2003, Eastman Kodak and China Lucky Film signed a 20-year co-operation agreement. In the agreement, Kodak contributed US$45 million and an emulsion making line for colour products for a 20 per cent stake in Lucky Film. Kodak also provided US$54.5 million and technical support to assist Lucky to upgrade its existing triacetate film base production and coating lines. It is possible that Kodak thought that eventually all their film base would be produced in China, but more likely that they assumed a slow decrease in film use as digital emerged with ongoing sales in the Chinese market. Remember that 2004 was the largest year worldwide for film sales, so in 2003 Kodak were still looking to expand.

Kodak retracted from the agreement in 2007, citing the growth of digital cameras in the Chinese market. Essentially, film sales had fallen off a cliff and Lucky was losing money. Kodak had hoped that the Chinese market would remain with film for at least some time, largely because of the high immediate cost of digital cameras vs relatively low cost of film. So they pulled out because, essentially, they thought it would be a cash cow and it turned out to be a drain in their resources.

 

[BillBingham2]

Very bad timing all around. The Kodak financial wizards were early in the decimation of a great company. Thanks for the info.

B2 (;->