Mcary
Veteran
Decide to start with Epson Velvet Fine Art and Moab Juniper Baryta Rag for B&W prints, the like the results for both but like the Moab a bit more. May give one of the Canson Infinity Baryta papers a try next.
Current Inkjet Options for B/W
- Thread starter v3cron
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 64
- Views 4K
kxl
Social Documentary
I've heard very good things about both Canson Infinity Baryta papers: the Photographique and the Prestige II
v3cron
Well-known
So now that I've been printing like crazy for nearly a week, I have some observations.
- This Ilford GFP paper is really well-matched to this printer. I only tried one other glossy baryta paper (Pictran), which is actually quite close, but the surface of the Ilford looks just a hair better to me. Since the only other baryta papers readily available in Japan are the Pictran and much more expensive Hahnemuhle and Canson, Ilford it is for me.
- "Ink Low" doesn't mean anything, apparently.
- Smudges on the borders can be solved with the simple platen gap, as has been detailed elsewhere online.
Now for the question part:
I ordered a sample pack of Awagami washi papers, just out of curiosity. They are all matte papers , and even though I think I will do most of my main printing on the glossy Ilford (well, pearl), I'd like to make sure I am getting the best out of these papers in case I want to use them for real one of these days. They have a great feel.
So any recommended settings to get a solid black and good snap/contrast? My test prints so far are nice and detailed, but since I am used to glossy, just not very deep and snappy. I tried increasing ink density and adjusting the ABW settings to get more contrast, but nothing was quite substantially more "wow" than my usual settings. Some were a little muddier without being significantly blacker. Do people use fairly extreme settings with matte, or is this just the ceiling of what can be done with it? I used the Epson Velvet media type.
- This Ilford GFP paper is really well-matched to this printer. I only tried one other glossy baryta paper (Pictran), which is actually quite close, but the surface of the Ilford looks just a hair better to me. Since the only other baryta papers readily available in Japan are the Pictran and much more expensive Hahnemuhle and Canson, Ilford it is for me.
- "Ink Low" doesn't mean anything, apparently.
- Smudges on the borders can be solved with the simple platen gap, as has been detailed elsewhere online.
Now for the question part:
I ordered a sample pack of Awagami washi papers, just out of curiosity. They are all matte papers , and even though I think I will do most of my main printing on the glossy Ilford (well, pearl), I'd like to make sure I am getting the best out of these papers in case I want to use them for real one of these days. They have a great feel.
So any recommended settings to get a solid black and good snap/contrast? My test prints so far are nice and detailed, but since I am used to glossy, just not very deep and snappy. I tried increasing ink density and adjusting the ABW settings to get more contrast, but nothing was quite substantially more "wow" than my usual settings. Some were a little muddier without being significantly blacker. Do people use fairly extreme settings with matte, or is this just the ceiling of what can be done with it? I used the Epson Velvet media type.
mrtoml
Mancunian
If you want ultimate control of black and white you might want to check out Quadtone RIP which supports the P700. There are some premade profiles for different papers which you could try and then tweak from there. But it is a steep learning curve.
v3cron
Well-known
I actually have that installed and just ran a couple of prints. You're right about the learning curve - using the included profiles and default settings, it looks very weak compared to ABW. I'd have to spend more time than I'm willing to get deep into that.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Matte papers always look weak compared to glossy; there's nothing you can do to change that. Make sure you use the Matte Black Ink for your matte papers; that does make a big difference, though the matte prints will still never have the deep blacks of a glossy paper.
v3cron
Well-known
I looked again at some manufacturer sample books (Ilford today), and they manage to get insanely black blacks on their rag and other matte papers, so I’m thinking the Awagami just might be particularly not great for dmax. Just wanted to make sure it wasn’t user error. I set the media type to Velvet, which should switch to matte black ink automatically.
Freakscene
Obscure member
Kozo papers, like Awagami, are poor to terrible for DMax. The blacks of platinum develop-out emulsions, the highest DMax materials that I know, on kozo look . . . mildly dark.
v3cron
Well-known
Thanks. That explains it then. I may have to buy some Ilford Cotton Rag to satisfy my matte-curiosity.
mrtoml
Mancunian
It might be worth buying a sample test pack of papers if they are available from the manufacturer.
One thing I have found is the presence of optical brighteners makes a big differece to the look and contrast of a (especially) matte print. The ones often labelled 'bright white' look completely different to the non-OBA warm papers. But the OBAs degrade over time and shift the tones of the original print.
I also find that printing a 'neutral' image on a warm paper often results in a greenish hue which I don't like. You have to experiment.
One thing I have found is the presence of optical brighteners makes a big differece to the look and contrast of a (especially) matte print. The ones often labelled 'bright white' look completely different to the non-OBA warm papers. But the OBAs degrade over time and shift the tones of the original print.
I also find that printing a 'neutral' image on a warm paper often results in a greenish hue which I don't like. You have to experiment.
v3cron
Well-known
I just found a sample pack of the ilford matte papers, so we will see what happens when that arrives.
robert blu
quiet photographer
This is absolutely true, it's a physical factor. In my work in a chemical company in the color field, dyes and pigments I was oft confronted by clients with the point "that competitors black is deeper than yours" but a real comparison can be made only if two different black have the same grade of opacity. You can see the difference printing a subject with a large part of black on a matt paper and than cover part of it with a transparent piece of plexiglas: you will notice how the "not vivid" black changes charachter!
I found on my Epson P900 the ABW mode gives very good prints. I print 90% of my photos B&W or color on matt paper, most of times Hahnemüle because of my personal taste.
I used some Awagami paper in the past, when I printed a series of scanned Polaroid for an exhibition and found the Awagami renders the visual of my oft out of focus Polaroids (desired effect!). If I correct remeber there are on the packets instructions about which profiles for the Epson printers (Canon too I think).
iPhone photo
v3cron
Well-known
Got the sample pack of Ilford matte papers today (they spell it “matt”), and it is quite impressive. The Smooth Cotton Rag has quite a bit of pop and dmax, and the Premium Duo is also quite nice. I foresee using that for a future book dummy. I’m not sure why they include the Fine Art Smooth Pearl in their matte collection when the spec sheet specifically says to use Pk ink, but it’s not bad. Not my favorite, though.
v3cron
Well-known
So everything has been going well until some recent prints that are showing a serious issue in the shadows. Anyone see this before and know the cause? I thought it may have been due to the matte papers I fed through, but there are prints I made after that without the issue. I also just tried a sheet from a box of the same 5x7 Ilford Gold Fiber Pearl (the issue is with an A4 box), and it prints fine. This points to a bad paper batch, but some other prints I made from this box were ok. I really hope this expensive 100 sheet box is not ddefective. I tried a sheet from the middle of the box, and it shows the same problem. Tried paper path cleaning and head cleaning with no effect. Also made prints at multiple quality settings both with and without the black overcoat thing.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
v3cron
Well-known
Lol, yes. It's hard to mess that up with the Fiber Pearl.
v3cron
Well-known
Looks like the paper is old and has deteriorated before it got to me. The date code on the label appears to be 2019, and appears a little yellowed compared to another smaller box I have that says 2023. So hopefully the retailer or Ilford will take care of me.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I've seen people do that, dumb as it sounds. I've learned as a teacher to ask about every possibility, no matter how silly becaus I have seen too many times when that's exactly what happened, lol.
robert blu
quiet photographer
To be honest it happened me too to print on the wrong side using matt paper! But I learned to check now!
Experience is a sum of mistakes!
Experience is a sum of mistakes!
Wenge
Registered User
I've also printed wrong side of the new Epson Enhanced matte paper, it's not like it used to be and easy to use wrong side. (lick 2 fingers/grab test still works but not as obvious now)
I thought I'd share my experience with a printer I recently got I think others might find useful for making prints at affordable price. Above are scanned crops of prints made on Epson Enhanced matte paper on this 'office' printer Epson ET-2980 Ecotank. I believe the tech is similar to the recent ET-8550 photo printer i've seen online but this one is on smaller format and less options in printer software but the output black-only prints are very good. (just sharing my experience, not affiliated w/Epson or links). Color prints are also good with a custom profile.
Both crops of Q2Mono at 1600iso I took when I owned camera a few years ago, with no output sharpening applied on the 2nd crop. The dots from b/o prints are barely visible when looking up close and cannot be seen at normal viewing distance. Full size print at 300dpi would be ~18x24", the right crop is full size scanned at 600dpi of a ~3"x3" section. (scanner also very good).
I bought this office printer for not making prints but just copies and office stuff; then made prints on it while preserving costly P800 OEM inks, and find it gives excellent b&w proofs & finals. The included black OEM Epson ink #502 bottle is said to be pigment. The main point is it's a very good printer up to 8x10 or Letter size and smaller. Epson deserves props here.
It also makes good gloss prints using Plain Paper/Quality setting along with Grayscale box ticked. Gloss paper driver settings give a bit smoother result on gloss paper but with a cool purple-ish color hue since it's also using color inks; that setting sounds weird but it works for b/o. Bronzing used to be an issue on the older Epsons on gloss, while not really an issue here on the HP and Epson gloss paper's I've tried so far, it seems they've added gloss optimizer to the oem black ink. Maybe others can chime in with other paper experiences.
Using black-only "gray" tick-box setting for matte prints gives fine-dot excellent results, with Presentation Paper Matte and Best Quality settings in the driver, similar to how Clayton Jones described black-only printing on prior Epsons on the Digital black/white forum that used to be on the Yahoo pages..I think he coined 'digital Tri-X' to describe the fine-grain effect of b/o printing. it does that here with finer dots than the prior Epsons. I also use an adjustment S-curve prior to print, with a more aggressive curve for matte paper vs gloss.
This printer does indeed clog (rarely), but it does sometimes after a few dozen prints after a few days of resting if i forget and don't run daily nozzle checks, but running quick clean cycle doesn't use a lot of ink and clears it quick vs some prior Epsons. Spare black ink bottle is now $20 for 127 ml bottle, ~4+ ounces. My P800 does same thing, clogs if not used for weeks, but also rarely and quick comeback from 1 cleaning. for me it's worth the $250 all day with this thing, it's payed for itself in saved inks on P800..hope this helps for anyone else's printing.
Last edited:
Similar threads
