RFF to encode leica and Zeiss lenses

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If there is a pat on the lens mount it would be meaningless unless you were in the business of manufacturing lens mounts from scratch to mimic a leica. Since you already own the lens in essence you are only making modifications to your own equipment.
 
something that Leica HAS NOT commented on and many reputable sources are speaking of is that the coding will also select the frame lines for the camera. Again, I CANNOT confirm this. This is what I have heard from people well in the know. I started a thread about this on pnet once and it evolved into a heated debate. However, I have a friend that will be meeting with leica execs in a few weeks who plans on seeing the camera. He will confirm this rumor for me. If it turns out to be true, then obviously the code will do more than just photshop your image in the camera.
 
If there is a pat on the lens mount it would be meaningless unless you were in the business of manufacturing lens mounts from scratch to mimic a leica. Since you already own the lens in essence you are only making modifications to your own equipment.

Jorge,

I really like RFf and I'd hate to see it go away. I'm not a patent lawyer but I think you really need to be careful here, if there is a patent. I did a quick US patent search and didn't find one, but like I said before, if they patented the eyepiece magnifier, I can't believe that they wouldn't or couldn't do it with this.

You are right; if you take your Dremel tool and some Testor's model paint and Franken-dot your mount, no one is the wiser. You try to compete with Leica on this, or screw up some Leica marketing execs plan to sell more lenses, I can't imagine they will sit by. Call it over-reaction, call it lawyer phobia, but I end up being a Cassandra far more than I want to.

I saw on pnet that you have a buddy who is going to see some Leica people. I'd have him enquire about the technology and any IP behind it.

Maybe Stephen Gandy can get Mr. K to comment on Cosina's plans for Voightlander M mount lenses and if there are any IP issues.

Best Regards,
Mark
 
Jorge Torralba said:
something that Leica HAS NOT commented on and many reputable sources are speaking of is that the coding will also select the frame lines for the camera. Again, I CANNOT confirm this. This is what I have heard from people well in the know. I started a thread about this on pnet once and it evolved into a heated debate. However, I have a friend that will be meeting with leica execs in a few weeks who plans on seeing the camera. He will confirm this rumor for me. If it turns out to be true, then obviously the code will do more than just photshop your image in the camera.
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Leica has also said that most lenses will work on the M8, so it wiil interesting what your friend finds out. If the rumor is true, then selecting frames for the uncoded lenses would be manual selection from a menu. That would certainly encourage the conversions.
 
Hmm.
I don't understand much of this thread, but what I got is the following:
The current M-mount lenses will not work with the M8 as they are now.
They can make them work, but it costs a lot.

This sounds extremely stupid to me.
 
Bob Ross said:
...If the rumor is true, then selecting frames for the uncoded lenses would be manual selection from a menu. That would certainly encourage the conversions.
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That would encourage me not to purchase the M8 first of all as some of my favourite lenses cannot be coded at all and i'm not keen to let the camera decide how i must like my pics anyway.
I can't simply believe that frame lines could not be selected the same way as usual given the simplicity of the current system which is based on the length of one flange as we know.

4002flangeweb.jpg
 
Uncoded lenses can be used on the M8 in exactly the same way as any other M camera, Leica said. It must be, as the Tri-Elmar would be unusable otherwise. The coding is only for added features, maybe, just maybe it will extinguish unused framelines, thereby uncluttering the viewfinder.
 
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LCT said:
That would encourage me not to purchase the M8 first of all as some of my favourite lenses cannot be coded at all and i'm not keen to let the camera decide how i must like my pics anyway.
I can't simply believe that frame lines could not be selected the same way as usual given the simplicity of the current system which is based on the length of one flange as we know.
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Same here .... and Leica has stated several times older lenses/ lenses not on the list can be used.
So if i have to select framelines manual or in a menu .... that's ok with me. I do not swap lenses all the times anyway.
No reason to start encoding before i have more facts on the M8.
Geeze we waited years for the M8 ... so i do not understand the hurry with encoding before the official release of the camera.

I still assume it will be obsolete for a lot of users (including myself)....... it is just a marketing tool ...... to sell (encoded) Leica lenses and ensure good off-camera jpeg files for Diginewcomers ... nothing wrong with that strategy from Leicas point of view.
 
I can't believe this frameline thing has come up again. Leica has stated that older lenses and lenses without the code will have "full" usability on the M8. They have also stated that the coding will correct system vignetting and transmit data for the EXIF file. No where in anything Leica has said is there even a vague hint that something as major an issue as frameline selection will be controlled by the codes.

As to this aftermarket coding service being applied to lenses other than ones Leica has developed profiles for, it seems quite obvious that would involve a compromise at best.
 
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Ben,

As i stated earlier I CANNOT confirm this rumor. I guess we will know in a few weeks. As far as functionality goes if it did control frame lines that does not mean the lens without the codes wont work. It would probably be a manual setting.
 
Jorge Torralba said:
...It would probably be a manual setting.
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Just another false rumor hopefully.
I won't pay $5,000 to get a new R-D1 with all due respect to that otherwise great camera.
 
Jorge Torralba said:
Ben,]

As far as functionality goes if it did control frame lines that does not mean the lens without the codes wont work. It would probably be a manual setting.
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Manually setting the frameline doesn,t bother me IF that is accomplished by a simple selector switch like the RD-1. However, it the frameline selector is buried in a menu that you have to dig thru with little scrolling buttons, that would take more time than changing the lens. I pray that Leica will keep the ergometrics of the camera as simple as Epson did with the RD-1.

Rex
 
I will keep things simple and stay away from digital cameras.
However, for those of you who consider digital photography, this is useful service by RFF.

Maybe a similar approach can be applied to get Film at lower costs for RFF members?



Raid
 
rvaubel said:
Manually setting the frameline doesn,t bother me IF that is accomplished by a simple selector switch like the RD-1. However, it the frameline selector is buried in a menu that you have to dig thru with little scrolling buttons, that would take more time than changing the lens. I pray that Leica will keep the ergometrics of the camera as simple as Epson did with the RD-1.

Rex
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The frame preview feature of the M class Leicas is part of it's heart and I doubt that it will be done away with. What may happen is that the mechanical linkage will change to electronic to save costs and to save space. I think this will be true of the shutter release, too. Mechanical linkages might be limited to the actual rangefinder. I do hope they will keep the frame selection lever and the screw in cable release on the shutter. Frame lines could be done with an LCD/TFT in the rangefinder and the results might be an improvement.
What we might get from the "dots" on the lenses is a lens profile similar to DxO, for corrections of distortions, variations in sharpness from center frame to corner, as well as the vignetting. The processing would slow write times and lens purists might moan about the lack of signatures to their lenses after processing...🙄
We'll have to wait on Jorge's spy (code name double em eight) reports back with the next batch of crumbs to really dig into the speculations....😀
Bob
 
Automatic frame lines is a Leica feature since the fiftees at least.
Whatever way it works it can't be lost in 2006 IMHO.
 
anselwannab said:
Raid- A Bulk, bulk film buy?

Mark
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Actually, I was thinking whether RFF could get a special deal with some whole sale dealer of Fuji and Kodak film. Maybe we could get a 15%-20% discount that way. If we keep administrative work needed for such a task to a minimum, it could be done with the large member of devoted spenders who we are in RFF.

This would also be good for getting deals on film that is about to become out of date. Bulk film is also included.

Raid
 
Interesting idea but I wonder how you are going to assure that the mapping of your codes will not collide with that of Leica.

If understand this correctly, each code maps to a Leica lens. When the lens is mounted onto the M8, the camera decodes it in its firmware and will know what lens is mounted on it. It will probably show up in the EXIF of the image.

So, here's the problem: Unless you collaborate closely with Leica, there's no way you can assure that future lens releases from Leica will not collide with the ones you assign for the non-Leica lenses.

Please illuminate further. THANKS!
 
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Initially I am thinking altering a non leica lens would at least send focal length to the exif data.So a 50 planar would be coded like a 50 summilux.
 
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