Should I stay or should I go?...

Didier

Didier

"Deed"
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Jun 13, 2005
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After Epson UK is not able to replace my R-D1 (as they're obvioulsy out of it, see thread here), Robert White offered me to refund fully or to sell me a R-D1s for additional £150 - if they can get some samples in a coupla weeks.

I'm strongly deceived by this camera's reliability and quality control, and I'm not shure how I should decide:

Option 1 - giving the R-D1s a last chance - with the risk to get another lemon (or it disaligns in a short time and needs a pro for aligning as the hot shoe plate is not removable)?

Option 2 - Forgetting digital rangefinder photography - taking the refund, sell the glass I bought extra for the Epson (CV 15D finder, 21mm Skopar, 35mm Summilux), and go for a DSLR, keep the rest of the M and LTM gear for fun film shooting.

Option 3 - get the refurb, make savings, go for M8? Not shure about it as the M8 is too expensive for my hobby needs. Have 3 kids which need a lot of stuff too, not to mention an own house... And the M8 is not flawless too, think IR...

So guys please kick me to option 1 otherwise I'll go for a canon EOS 5D or a Nikon D200!

Didier
 
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Sorry to hear about your bad news. All I can say is I bought my R-D1s new from Robert White, they checked the alignment over before sending it as I asked them to and it was spot on, 5 months later it's still spot-on and I've had no problems with the camera at all. It gets carried with me everywhere and doesn't get given special treatment.

Only you can decide if it's worth trying again. You'll get a warranty from Robert White at least. My DSLR hasn't been used since I got the Epson.

Ian
 
iml said:
... All I can say is I bought my R-D1s new from Robert White, they checked the alignment over before sending it as I asked them to and it was spot on, 5 months later it's still spot-on and I've had no problems with the camera at all. It gets carried with me everywhere and doesn't get given special treatment. ... My DSLR hasn't been used since I got the Epson.
Click to expand...

Hmm, sounds good... :)
 
Considering what you've been through already, I'd say you'd be justified in telling Robert White you'll take the R-D 1s, but want to test it for a couple of weeks before committing.
 
I suppose a question to ask yourself is whether you'll ever have any confidence in the Epson. If it leaves you with nagging doubts about its operation, it may not be that much fun to use.

Peter
 
The R-D1 has always been plagued by a worse than dreadful QC, so if you can afford it at all you are probably better off getting an M8, even with its quastionable design quirks, since getting a good R-D1 might prove quite a challange.
Of course if you can't afford the M8, maybe having another go at a R-D1s could be worthwile.
 
I got my RD-1 from Robert White earlier in the year it was and is perfect.If my Rd-1 was faulty I would get it repaired or get another new or secondhand I couldnt go back to a DSLR unless it was the only option available to me.I think Robert White have made you a generous offer and you could still sell it in 6 months if,after giving it a try,you decide a DSLR would suit you better.
Anyway its your choice but I hope you stay around the forum whatever you decide.

Regards
Steve
 
My personal choice would be to take the RD-1s "on approval" to see if you get a good one. If it too is out of whack, then go for the refund.

But the M8 is uber expensive for a hobbyist and the D200 or 5D are completely different beasts which will require large and heavy and expensive new lenses as well. I certainly have spent more than 3x the cost of the D200 body on glass for it!

My take on Epson QC issues is that, given that they made so few, the voicing of complaints *appears* disproportionately high.

My *guess* is that you will get a good RD-1s. Certainly worth a try -- especially if Robert White will allow you a 2 week approval period.

JMO.
 
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Only you can decide

Only you can decide

I'm in a similar situation, but not exactly the same. I've been shooting DSLRs for about 3 years now, and just got an R-D1 about 2 weeks ago. It came out of the box with a misaligned RF patch. Epson said that they didn't have any to replace it with, and offered me my money back. I was pretty down on the camera and Epson at first. But new that I'd like shooting with a digital RF, as I used to shoot with rangefinders many years ago. So, I first tried adjusting the RF patch myself, but couldn't quite get it right for both near and far distances. Then after much agonizing I decided to just bring it to a local repair shop and let them have a go at it. He fixed the RF alignment, and I've been happy with the camera since then. I check the alignment several times a day, and it is holding. If it looks like everything is going to work and stay together for a month or so then I'll feel more confident about keeping the camera and buy another lens for it. But if it starts to go off again even slightly I'll dump the camera and just use that money for other lenses for my DSLRs.

Both the D200 and 5D are pretty nice cameras, and certainly more flexible in their application than a RF like the R-D1. If you go with a DSLR you'll have a very capable machine. It just won't be as small, or able to shoot handheld as slowly as the RF. I personally would prefer to have both a RF and DSLR, but if I only get one, then it would be the DSLR. I guess that's why I'm not selling all my Nikon gear to purchase an M8 and a couple of lenses.
 
The R-D1s's seem to have been better in quality than the R-D1 from what I see. I feel that people jump too quickly to conclusion when it comes to the RF misalignment issue. I had this happen to one of my lenses and I ended up modifying the lens than fiddling with the RF. It's much easier to replace a lens than the camera. The camera is just a tool and one has to understand the limitations of the tool. There is no perfect camera in the world. What matters is how best do you utilize the tool and produce the desired outcome.

I had seen your thread about the framelines being tilted. Quite honestly, I get that feel too with my RD. But I work with it and try to understand what the camera is trying to tell me. In reality, the framelines are accurate in terms of orientation.

Good luck with your decision.
 
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Please don´t leave the club!!!

Go for the R-D1s. I think you will miss your Epson and digital rangefinder experiments/possibilities anyway.

The M8 and it´s IR problems are :eek: ........
And a 5D + the 24-105, well, it´s i nice small small small, well, yes :bang:
 
If Epson has trouble providing parts now, think about the issue later down the road. Buy your DSLR now....save for an M8 later.
 
I have had my R-D1 for about a week now and I love the thing. It so much smaller and easier to carry around than my dSLR. No alignment problems yet, SN 46xx. Speaking for the dSLR, it's just too big for walking around. Especially when you have to carry extra lens and flash. I have the 10d, 1dmk2, and at least a dozen lens. Yes I have the 24-70f/2.8L and the 24-70 f/4L IS that I can use as a walk around but by comparision, it is still a beast. My small 50mm f/1.4 is ok as a walk around also.....but again, it's still a much bigger combination than the R-D1 with any lens. Both take nice pics but for b&w and travel, the R-D1 is so much nicer in my opinion. Much more natural film like quality about it. It's nice to have both if you can afford it...but like I said, I like the Epson more than 10D or 1Dmk2...at least for now. I didn't like the 5D that I bought and sold(too much like 20d in that there is a magenta tone to it.) Much more noticable on a Mac with a 5k calibrated monitor. On a PC, the 6.5k makes it difficult to detect. Yes, did I say how much I love the R-D1, especially the analog gages and the old look. Only thing I don't like are the short battery life, but I have 2 on order, and the AE lock button. Why did they put that there, it's so annoying. People who are going to use a manual rangefinder will probably know their exposure setting. It would also be nice if a few of the parts are made from metal (shutter cock, speed adjustment knob, and 28/35/50 knob.) I might have to machine some metal ones myself to retrofit it. :)
 
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Thanks to all who contributed. I have decided - for option 1. Robert White's Jon just mailed me
"As soon as [R-D1s] stocks arrive I will put a perfect one aside for you"​
 - and I think this is very fair and gives me the feeling to get a good sample. Not ALL Epsons can be a lemon!

What made me help to decide is my glass, too - look at my signature. How could one make these lenses jobless ?? :) And there are some other plus points with rf photography I don't have to mention here ;)

So let's wait some more weeks. I hope for the last time.

Didier
 
As much as I would have liked to take the 15D viewer off your hands, I think you've made the right choice. And I think you are due a whole lot of luck. That and Robert White's reputation should get you a winner this time.
 
I can only add to what others have said... I've used my R-D1 lightly, but consistently for nearly two years with no trouble whatsoever. It's done 90% of my exposures over that time. My other camera is a 5D kit...
 
I'm holding off on the M8 or a 5D. I'm blissfully happy for my needs with the RD1 and a 20D, I'll wait and see what's next up on the horizon. At least from Canon, it will almost certainly be a better camera than the 5D for the same or less money, whereupon the price of the 5D will drop. My buy-point for a 5D is $1500 for a refurb. As for the M8, if there's an M9 that doesn't need IR filters, I would take a hard look again. Then again it will be very tempting to buy someone's barely-used M8 and all their IR filters off them for $2000 :D
 
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I recommend every prospective R-D1 buyer to have the sample you're going to buy tested. I did so 20 months ago when I bought mine from Dr Yao in HK. I asked him specifically about those qc issues and if he would check my camera for me. He did. I received a perfect camera. The rf even survived travelling from HK to Holland by mail. I use my R-D1 extensively. I'm not a pro but I easily shoot 1-2-300 photos per week in my spare time. I carry my camera nearly everywhere, either around my neck, in my hand or in my courier bag to work. The body looks used, and it is. Yet, I've yet to find fault with my camera. I might have to adjust the rf alignment slightly, though, but I wear glasses and I find it sometimes difficult to keep my eye in the middle of the vf making focusing a little difficult. But I can judge my focusing pretty well and most of shots are focused the way I want them.

Yes, a crappy sample sucks, and I would be feeling like Didier but please, do ask for a pre-sale check up of the camera you're gonna buy.
 
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