I bought a used Summicron. Should I keep it or return it?

galavanter

galavanter

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I just received my first Leica lens, a 35mm Summicron Type III made in 1972 in Canada. It came with both caps and a hood, not to mention the original box with a price tag of $270.00 on it. I paid $750.00 from a long established camera store in the Midwest US. I bought my R-D1 from them and the transaction was smooth and the camera like new as advertised.
They emailed me pics and the lens looks great in them and in person. The glass looks perfect to me and the focus is smooth. I had asked on the phone about focus and aperture smoothness, oil on blades, fog and haze. I was told it wouldn't be on their shelf if it had any of these problems.
But the aperture gets a bit "thick" to turn around f5.6 through f16. Coming back the same thing until f5.6, then it loosens up. Close inspection from the rear appears to reveal some oil on the blades (It could be oil, I have no experience with this). Also one blade (looking from the rear) is a different color than the others, which are all gun metal grey. This one appears tan colored.
The price seemed fair compared to what I have seen elsewhere. What would a CLA cost? Would another problem cause the stiffness in the aperture ring movement? If a CLA is $200.00 do I still have a good deal? I must return it tomorrow to avoid a 15% restocking fee. I am on the road and this is twice the hassle for me. A new worry free Zeiss or Voigtlander is coming to mind...What would you do? I would appreciate your advice...

Jim
 
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galavanter said:
If a CLA is $200.00 do I still have a good deal?
Jim
Click to expand...
If you didn't get a warranty with the lens, and can't get over the sticky aperture, I'd go for a CLA, and I haven't known lens CLAs to top $100. Call/email Sherry Krauter at GoldenTouch (http://www.sherrykrauter.com/) to get your lens cleaned up nicely.

BTW, what "long reputed camera store in the midwest" might you be referring to?
 
$750 is pretty high for this lens with oily blades and a stiff aperture ring. It's possible it's a sign of impact damage.

The different color blade is a possible sign of repair.

If you're happy with the images this lens produces, you might keep it and just use it without a CLA.

Personally, I would return it. There are far better deals for lenses in more pristine condition.
 
Personally I would return it, but you have to decide the cost to you.
Do you want to risk it and pay the price later with a nice paperweight?
Or
Spend some time to return it and look for something a little more trustworthy.
 
M4streetshooter said:
Return it and get a new 35mm Biogon....
Click to expand...
... if you like its bokeh and fingerprint.
Otherwise, for a fingerprint and bokeh similar as yours and a reasonable price, you could wish to try the great Summicron-C 40/2 which fits perfectly the 35mm framelines of the R-D1 at medium to long distance.
But anyway, i'd return your lens if i were you.
 
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Thanks for all your responses. I'm gonna sleep on it. I did take some photos before it got dark and they are as good as I expected. The fingerprint and bokeh are just what I had hoped for, even though it is a V3 and not V4. I doubt I could tell the difference. Anyway I read those V4's are 20 grams heavier and glued together!
Size was a factor in my decision too. I do like the lens on my R-D1. The way the aluminum cap slides on! Red felt lined! I won't name the shop because I don't really think it was intentional. I hope Sherry is in Saturdays, thanks for her url. If the problems can be fixed for a reasonable cost it may be worth it to send it to her. The glass is great. This is my only lens! Like I said I'm on the road...Thanks again.

Jim
 
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Jim,

For the complete package, you paid a fair price. I liked the v3 enough to buy a second. I also own the v4, and it delivers the same result optically. Buildwise, the v3 is the next best thing to Wezlar chrome. These older lenses can need a little lubrication, although some exercise can also loosen the parts nicely.

I say keep the lens!
 
I would also suggest that you check the close focus accuracy of this lens on the R-D1 as well. My 1973 V3 Canada front focusses 3 inches at 3 feet. I have tried a friends of the same vintage and it does the same. It's not the rangefinder as my other lenses are OK, but seems to be something to do with where the cam engages the cam follower on the camera.

The lens is usable, but you have to allow for it when close-up and wide open.
 
Get your money back and buy a CV Ultron 35mm f/1.7 aspherical and an M ring. According to the tests I've seen it's a better lens than the old non aspherical Summicron, which is what you have, but not quite as good as the aspherical summicron. The Ultron goes for around $385, and the M ring for between $50 and $60. I use one on my R-D1 and it's a beautiful piece of glass.
 
I've used the Canadian V3 on the RD1 and had no problems with focus - in fact its a great lens on the RD1 for size, balance, operation and IQ. I've compared the lens with a V4 and an asph, and kept the V3. I agree with an earlier post - Its built extremely well, but best of all the image quality is superb. I've owned mine 20 years nearly and focus and aperture rings are very smooth to operate, it sounds like yours needs attention. Its my most used lens.

Nik
 
I have the v3 as well - consciously picked it over the v4 since signatures are almost identical,
it's better built and I assume has less flare (since it has one element less). But US 750 is a bit
steep if it needs a CLA. On the other hand if it's good optically, I wouldn't experiment with
selling/buying other lenses.

Don or Sherry will CLA the lens for US 100 or so. Most other lenses that
old should be CLA'ed anyways.

The strength of the pre-asph Summicron for me is its sharpness/contrast
mix, its size, and its close focus.

Sorry for the mixed message, but only you can decide based on the first
photos you took. If you like them keep the lens, is my advice.

Roland.
 
I guess I'm keepin' it. I just got off the phone with Ms. Krauter and she was great. "It's old! How old are you? It's gunked up!" Well what could I say?
It is in great condition otherwise, maybe it will loosen up a bit with exercise like Rico says, and until I decide to send it in for CLA it will serve me well. I don't know where I got $200 (internet!), as $100 is of course correct as Erik and Roland pointed out.
I have done the same agonizing as everyone else over which direction to go with lens purchases, but like others have said, the contrast, size, and speed make for a great package on my R-D1. When and if I go for a 28mm, I guess a no white spots Rokkor M will fit the bill. How bout 21mm? Which version. 1972 I guess🙂 I want consistency in fingerprint, contrast, and size if possible in any collection I assemble for the R-D1.
Russell the CV's are great, but I want lower contrast if I can get it. I like to do b&w. Streetshooter I forget what I have read now about the Zeiss M's contrast, but I am thinking it is up there with the CV's, although not as high as the Leica asphs. I wish they had push on caps as Sean Reid has pointed out. Jim a couple of wide open close-ups I took look good to me so far.
My post was really mostly concerned with price/performance ratio. At this point, considering my circumstances, another hundred is starting to seem worth it. I was bidding on a mint V4 recently (I was able to speak to them on the phone) and it went over $1500. The only thing the V4 has over the V3 in my mind is the apparently easier to use aperture ring. Thanks again.

Jim
 
Good call, Jim. Here is a shot that I took with my v3, which shows you why I like it:

126039757-L.jpg


Best,

Roland.
 
Very nice. I like it too. I called the camera store today to explain the situation and they were very professional about it. They were open to any and all remedies. Turns out they have an account with DAG and will arrange for a CLA, on them. I just want to find out the turnaround time with DAG on Tuesday...
 
Roland, beautiful pic. Don is very very good. Take your dealer's offer. Don's turnaround is the only issue but if you instruct the store to tell him that it is your only lens he will do it on an accelerated schedule for you. I made the mistake of sending three lenses at once to him last year and they didn't come back for quite a while. All of them were transformed but I really had to be patient. One of them was a rigid Summicron with internal haze that I picked up real cheap on eBay. I simply couldn't believe it when it came back; this is what the lens must have been like when it was brand new. He does superb work...
 
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