Fallen off the wagon

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TJV

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So my M8 is now confined to my book shelf. Why? Because... Well, where should I start?

(The first straw to fall on the camel's back)

Purple blacks (an issue MAYBE excusable in intself. Disgusting, seeing as there was no mention of its sensitivity in any pre or post release information when I bought it.)
Six week vacation in Germany for "upgrade".
Disgusting shutter sound. (why does even a 5D sound better?)

(The second straw...)

Vertical bands straight out the box, fresh from upgrade.
An obscene wait for new firmware and IR filters.
Compulsary coding of lenses for advertised quality - eg for the camera to do the most basic of imaging and not have cyan corners with 35mm (THE M lens, for me at least, as the traditional 50mm focal length is my most used.)

(Ooops! The Camel is dead on the ground with a broken back.)

Massive horizontal banding occuring while doing the most mundane of indoor shots.
Camera freezing.
And while not strictly to do with the M8, to do with Leica none the less... waiting 6 months (and counting) for a basic repair to a 50mm summicron does not exactly inspire confidence in Leica's ability to "keep me happy." Also having a 35 Summilux on order for 3 months (before M8 discount offer,) makes me wonder how I'll ever build up a full kit, let alone acquire a few extra batteries.

I'm shooting with my M7 again and am baffled with the digital world Leica has created. Even the best shots taken with my M8 required hours of editing to correct IR. Film scans always require work but at least I find the colours and tonal response reliable. If I was a rich man I'd give up and buy an MP until Leica, or whoever, make something worthy of the professional market. Or maybe the Limited Hexar with 50mm f1.2 down the road.

Maybe I'll get a call from the local Leica distributors tomorrow and be told all will be fixed in firmware. Then I'll be happy. But so help me, if I get so much as one ghost image from a retarded IR filter I was not warned about having to use when I payed for my M8, I'm getting my money back. I don't care how much film costs.

That's my rant for today. Let the retorts and negative feedback flow. So be it. I won't be able to hear you because the grinding of all your M8 shutters will drown your voices out. Mine will sit quietly on the shelf, sulking.
 
TJV said:
baffled with the digital world Leica has created..
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Leica hasn't created the digital world, they were washed ashore by the tsunami. They are the castaways of Gilligan's Island, doing the best they can to fashion technology with limited knowledge and resources, and bumbling leadership. To non-Leica-fans, the M8 fiasco sounds like a sitcom. Will a big ship come by and pluck them to safety, or will the next wave of technology wash over them? A bigger question might be, will anyone still be watching? It looks like their devoted audience is beginning to channel surf. 🙁
 
Ben Z said:
Leica hasn't created the digital world, they were washed ashore by the tsunami. They are the castaways of Gilligan's Island, doing the best they can to fashion technology with limited knowledge and resources, and bumbling leadership. To non-Leica-fans, the M8 fiasco sounds like a sitcom. Will a big ship come by and pluck them to safety, or will the next wave of technology wash over them? A bigger question might be, will anyone still be watching? It looks like their devoted audience is beginning to channel surf. 🙁
Click to expand...

I don't know if anyone followed the Kodak 14N story. I was in the market to switch to a full frame sensor camera from my D1x nikons and was looking at the 14N when it came out. I wanted to keep my Nikkor lenses. I tried one and went home and canceled my order and sold my Nikons gear. I went all Canon 1Ds, 1D and now the 1DsII. That was 4 years ago. The poor consumers that were sucked into Kodaks hype about the 14N being the worlds best camera suffered the consequences. Firmware update after update went on for a couple of years. Odd color areas within the frame and different with every lens. Excessive noise and battery drain, banding, moire and chromatic abberations were just a few of the problems. Kodak fijnally deceided it sould'nt be fixed in firmware updates so the killed the 14N and came out with another version that was suposed to be the fix. This model came with some of the sold problems plus many new ones. Finally Kodak discontinued the second model and their digital MF back and no longer supports them. Sound a little like the DMR and M8 story? I have no idea why Leica adopted the Kodak sensor. Kodak has a terrible reputation overall with a few exceptions. I'm affraid Leica is headed down the Kodak path.
 
All what I've been reading regarding the M8 makes me believe that it's not just about bleeding-edge, look at the RD-1, they sometimes experience minor bugs, but nothing like this. I won't go into blaming this or that because I'm just a russian RF amateur, not a specialist.

I wish you good luck if you want to sell your camera.
 
As a fellow Kiwi (ex pat) I offer you my sympathies and hope you get some joy out of the situation. I'm not into bagging the M8 as my personal experience of it is zilch but I am a Leica fan and now and then do toy with the idea of owning the 8 ... but in reality my D70 more than fullfils my digital requirements. I hope Leica can eventually make all users of this camera, be it upgrades or subsequent models, sattisfied with their choice because a digital rangefinder was a bold move and it would be nice to see it succeed ... there are more than enough DSLR's in the world.

In the meantime ... the way the NZ cricket team has been 'giving it' to the Aussies lately must give you a smile hopefully ... it does me! 🙂

Keith
 
Keith novak said:
As a fellow Kiwi (ex pat) I offer you my sympathies and hope you get some joy out of the situation. I'm not into bagging the M8 as my personal experience of it is zilch but I am a Leica fan and now and then do toy with the idea of owning the 8 ... but in reality my D70 more than fullfils my digital requirements. I hope Leica can eventually make all users of this camera, be it upgrades or subsequent models, sattisfied with their choice because a digital rangefinder was a bold move and it would be nice to see it succeed ... there are more than enough DSLR's in the world.

In the meantime ... the way the NZ cricket team has been 'giving it' to the Aussies lately must give you a smile hopefully ... it does me! 🙂

Keith
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Yes! A win for the Black Caps puts a smile on everybodies face here. As for Leica, a rep is visiting from Germany this week so I will air my concerns with him personally if I get time.

Tim
 
x-ray said:
I have no idea why Leica adopted the Kodak sensor. Kodak has a terrible reputation overall with a few exceptions. I'm affraid Leica is headed down the Kodak path.
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Maybe Kodak's bid was lowest 😉 The big difference between Kodak and Leica is that Kodak doesn't have a fan club willing to modify whatever definitions they have to to accept their products.
 
Tim,

Sorry to hear of your problems. I'm in the same boat, but got confirmation today that I can have my money back. Interesting what you say about magenta - I had very few shots without it, not only magenta but blue coats turning purple and various other strange shades. Basically anything with people in it was suspect. The joys of early adoption :bang:

Maybe PMA will bring opportunites to "invest" my money elsewhere 😉
 
I'm baffled and feel sorry for you. Why? Two bodies. The first: first batch.
It has been to Solms for exactly two weeks to upgrade.
Magenta no problem at all with IR filters
Banding: after the upgrade on my first and on my second body impossible to provoke
Filters: easy to obtain
Freezing: none, except my toes when skiing.
Batteries: just ordered them and got them within days.
Cyan corners yes-slightly, but firmware will fix that, and I am no dummy at Photoshop meanwhile.

So I wonder: Am I just plain lucky, are you clearly unlucky, or are we even talking about the same camel?
 
jaapv said:
I'm baffled and feel sorry for you. Why? Two bodies. The first: first batch.
It has been to Solms for exactly two weeks to upgrade.
Magenta no problem at all with IR filters
Banding: after the upgrade on my first and on my second body impossible to provoke
Filters: easy to obtain
Freezing: none, except my toes when skiing.
Batteries: just ordered them and got them within days.
Cyan corners yes-slightly, but firmware will fix that, and I am no dummy at Photoshop meanwhile.

So I wonder: Am I just plain lucky, are you clearly unlucky, or are we even talking about the same camel?
Click to expand...

Yes, we are talking about the same camel.

And, as part of the continuing saga, I got a call this morning to say that my 50mm summicron was back from Germany, 6bit coded and repaired (there was a strange non-fungus haze on back element.) It had been away once and returned back without a lens cap and un-repaired or coded, which took just over four months. So it was sent away again. I went in to pick it up today and, although the Leica receipt said it was coded, it wasn't. It had been repaired though. So, now, the job has taken about EIGHT MONTHS, and I'm still no closer to seeing it. Apparently it's being expressed shipped back to Germany now for it's third holiday in 8 months... This doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Meanwhile I wait for my 35 summilux. So far I've waited three months since placing my order (pre discount offer.)

But hey, this is just one persons experience.

And, Gid, I totally agree. I find most colours are off. It's a disgrace, really. But as I've said before, I'm pretty close to giving up, but I'm still hanging in by a thread. It's a strange thing, faith.

Tim
 
I agree, such service is disgusting and would have me in the same spot you are in. But it is untypical, other posters, not just me, have excellent experiences, better than othe camera makes, so I really wonder what is going on?
Actually I had a similar experience with a Digilux2 last year, which ended differently. It came back worse than I sent it in. An email of complaint resulted in a five-day turnaround, an as-new camera, a letter of apology, a free battery and a little tin of sweets. But then - I live a lot closer to Solms and tend to deal with Leica directly.
 
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Today things were basically sorted for me. Leica have turned me around. I'm still sceptical about the M8 but I'm convinced they'll look after me being a Joe Bloggs customer. The service I've received since these problems started to surface last week has been swift and reassuring. Although I'm still not sold on the new digi RF on the block, I'm again sold on Leica's commitment to its customers. I'll spare the details, but in the end it just came down to people listening and an appology.

Tim
 
Ben Z said:
Leica hasn't created the digital world, they were washed ashore by the tsunami. They are the castaways of Gilligan's Island, doing the best they can to fashion technology with limited knowledge and resources, and bumbling leadership. To non-Leica-fans, the M8 fiasco sounds like a sitcom. Will a big ship come by and pluck them to safety, or will the next wave of technology wash over them? A bigger question might be, will anyone still be watching? It looks like their devoted audience is beginning to channel surf. 🙁
Click to expand...


Hmmm.. Snip from LUF :

Well, I ordered a lens from Tony Rose last night (a 50mm Summilux ASPH - I just couldn't stand it any more...). Tony mentioned that Leica USA currently has over a 1000 lenses back ordered with Leica. I don't know what the US market extrapolates to in terms of world wide demand, but I'd say this probably suggests a remarkable backlog of product, perhaps of historic dimensions, for Leica - something which surely bodes well for them.
Click to expand...
 
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