What black paint for Leica repaint?

[abenner]

Mafufo - I'm not an expert, but I don't think I'll "ruin" the camera. What's the worst that could happen? I do a crappy paint job, I remove the paint, and have the brass parts again.

Also, it's not about trying to "fake" anything. I want a black paint body. What are my choices? 1) Buy one at a very expensive price, 2) Have CRR Luton paint it at a very expensive price, and take 4+ months, 3) Wait for Shintaro to (never) email me back, then pay $500 for him to paint my camera, which may be gone for a year, or 4) Try it myself.

Colyn - Thanks for the advice. Sounds like you know what you're talking about. Will be interesting to see your project. I have seen used Shintaro bodies that patina and brass beautifully.

Bob - I've read Shintaro's site. It's not really helpful for someone who wants to paint it themselves, beyond what we've already discussed. Removing chrome, bake on enamel, etc.

Photoeil - There's absolutely nothing wrong with a chrome body. I have a chrome M3 and love it. I'd just like to have a black paint classic M.

 

[aizan]

does anyone have ideas about how to prop up pieces for painting? it's not like you just lay them down on newspaper, right?

 

[colyn]

Here's what Shintaro says:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/Shintaro/aboutpainting.html

I know that muriatic acid will strip off the chrome but am wondering what he uses to strip off the nickel..

 

[colyn]

does anyone have ideas about how to prop up pieces for painting? it's not like you just lay them down on newspaper, right?

I use wood pieces cut for each part. Small parts are first painted on the underside and after drying turned over for final painting.

 

[aizan]

i found this stuff for removing the nickel plating in my initial research.

http://www.finishing.com/stripper/index.shtml

 

[edodo]

why not taking a Porche royal black or whatever paint... It should be a good black

 

[abenner]

I don't plan to remove the chrome myself. Where I'm at (and probably at any reasonably sized metropolitan area) I've found a plater who can remove from the top and bottom plates and all tiny bits the chrome via reverse electrolysis and then remove the underlying nickel via a chemical process, total for around $40, leaving me with smooth, naked brass.

 

[colyn]

I don't plan to remove the chrome myself. Where I'm at (and probably at any reasonably sized metropolitan area) I've found a plater who can remove from the top and bottom plates and all tiny bits the chrome via reverse electrolysis and then remove the underlying nickel via a chemical process, total for around $40, leaving me with smooth, naked brass.

This is the best route. I've seen sites that have you sand off the plating but this can damage the brass.

 

[ray_g]

Mafufo - I'm not an expert, but I don't think I'll "ruin" the camera. What's the worst that could happen? I do a crappy paint job, I remove the paint, and have the brass parts again.

You'd have an all brass camera. 😉

Seriously, I hope someone starts doing this stateside. I have been having the same dilemma with Shintaro and CRR Luton.

 

[mikepry]

Baking Paint

Baking Paint

There is no such thing as baking paint.. All paints except plastic (plastic impregnated ) paint can be baked even spray can paints can be baked..

Oh yes there certainly is baking paint, and paint, if not formulated just for baking, will fail when baked. The vehicle will break down quite rapidly when exposed to extreme heat. Trust me on this one as I have been in the coatings industry for over 30 years. I don't chime in on this forum much as I'm new to the whole rangefinder thing but coatings are my area of expertise and will chime in where I fel I can contribute in a helpful manner. Baking paints are also very thin as they mostly are designed for use where there are very tight clearances. Here is an example of one of mine ................

 

[abenner]

Now that's the beauty of community. It's like LOST, where that guy has a spine tumor and a neurosurgeon crashes onto his island. I'm looking for paint recommendations and we have a coatings expert...

Seriously, mikepry, I need details! Ideally, I'd like to know where I can buy a bake on enamel, black, just a bit glossy, that I can apply with an airbrush. And perhaps you can answer this dilemma: to prime or not to prime!

By the way, beautiful camera! Did you do that to it?

 

[colyn]

Oh yes there certainly is baking paint, and paint, if not formulated just for baking, will fail when baked. The vehicle will break down quite rapidly when exposed to extreme heat. Trust me on this one as I have been in the coatings industry for over 30 years. I don't chime in on this forum much as I'm new to the whole rangefinder thing but coatings are my area of expertise and will chime in where I fel I can contribute in a helpful manner. Baking paints are also very thin as they mostly are designed for use where there are very tight clearances. Here is an example of one of mine ................

I should have been more specific but you're being too broad.. We are talking about paints that would be used for painting cameras not industrial or other use paints.

While there are many different types of paint, most are not designed for our intended purpose..those that are can be baked.

 

[ddutchison]

I've only painted one camera. I used Tremclad "High heat" enamel (designed for painting automotive engine blocks etc. I figured it would be tough enough, I'm sure other manufactures make similar products.). Needless to say, you can bake it, or at least I did without problem.

I used a "high heat" primer by the same manufacturer- as it was explained to me that primer is formulated to adhere to metal, while paint is formulated to adhere to primer, made sense.

I did find that flat paint preserved the engravings well even through several coats while gloss filled them very quickly so I ended up going with 1 coat primer, 3 thin coats of flat black, and a single top-coat of gloss black for finish.

Prior to paining I lightly sanded the metal, then cleaned it with methyl-hydrate. After painting and initial drying, I baked the parts, can't remember the temperature but it was lowish - maybe 250 f for a couple of hours.

The paint held up fantastically, and this was over chrome. It was an every day user too.

The only problem was that dust is a real b*gg*r to control while painting, and that paint out of a spray-can is going to look it... but at arms length it looked beautiful 😉. If you want more than that you'll need to use an air brush.

On a Leica M2, I would be worried about the ring under the rewind knob... how well that would fit on a painted top plate, and you might want to leave it chrome (as it's hidden under the rewind most of the time anyway) since it has very fine threads which could be easily damaged.

Anyway that's my experience.

 

[edodo]

Peter Luton told me that the little chrome ring under the frame selector, once removed for painting would no longer hold the frame selector mecanism at some point, and some piece could fall inside recquiering disassembling the body... Also on the M3 and M4, the frame counter window isn't glued, its a perfect fit, so with black paint it must be shimmed. Anyway the M2 doesn't have this counter window.

 

[Bill58]

You'd have an all brass camera. 😉

Seriously, I hope someone starts doing this stateside. I have been having the same dilemma with Shintaro and CRR Luton.

I think I remember Jon Goodman was dabbling/ experimenting in camera painting about a year ago. You might see if he's still doing it.

 

[clintock]

Has anyone ever tried some of the paints for guns? Supposedly they stick to anodized aluminum very well.. Giving hope for banged-up CL bodies..

 

[Bill58]

Oh yes there certainly is baking paint, and paint, if not formulated just for baking, will fail when baked. The vehicle will break down quite rapidly when exposed to extreme heat. Trust me on this one as I have been in the coatings industry for over 30 years. I don't chime in on this forum much as I'm new to the whole rangefinder thing but coatings are my area of expertise and will chime in where I fel I can contribute in a helpful manner. Baking paints are also very thin as they mostly are designed for use where there are very tight clearances. Here is an example of one of mine ................

I know jack....... about painting and so thought powder coating or PVD would be the toughest and ideal, but sadly neither is practical for a variety of reasons. Maybe Mike would be interested in doing this as a sideline???????

Some guns are "Blackchromed". There was also a company in Houston that did a pretty tough Black Teflon coating to Chrome Moly and SS barrels/ actions a few years ago.

 

[mikepry]

I should have been more specific but you're being too broad.. We are talking about paints that would be used for painting cameras not industrial or other use paints.

While there are many different types of paint, most are not designed for our intended purpose..those that are can be baked.

Well, I don't want to start a debate nor do I want to come off as arrogant, but rather to help in an area that I am versed in. I wanted to be general in my answer so as not to confuse. Why wouldn't we want an "industrial" paint? We are painting brass and it is something that will get allot of handling and usage. And as far as a true "camera paint" I don't know of any. Even if there was, it would more than likely be a "house brand" type label with an "industrial coating" being the actual material. Having said that I would highly recommend going to Brownells.com and check out their coatings, specifically their "Baking Enamel." Brownells is the largest gunsmith supplier in the country. Their paint, when baked on over a "Properly" prepared surface becomes part of the metal itself. The only way to remove it is to beadblast it off. These paints have a very low mil thickness and are designed for very tight tolerances i.e. gun magazines, etc. and you DON'T use a primer with them. Really when we think of "industrial" coatings we think of smokestacks, bridges and the like BUT there are "industrial" coatings that are formulated to go on very thin and provide a very high resistance to wear and tear.

As far as sheen goes, when I did my lllc, I didn't want a "plastic like" gloss so I took my top and bottom plate to my local gunsmith and had him beadblast with a very fine bead so as to put a slight "tooth" to the metal. What this did was to render the gloss finish somewhere between a satin and semi gloss finish ....... exactly what I wanted. Not only did it render the sheen I was after but it really aided in great adhesion. I did remove the chrome myself using reverse electroplating but in the future I will just have someone who is set up better for it do that for me. Hope this all helps and here is another image of the camera so as to see the sheen I am describing. Cheers.

 

[Bill58]

Experts- arrogant or humble- are much appreciated here. Thanks Mike for the tip. Brownells is famous for selling the best, tried and true stuff in the industry.

 

[Xmas]

Mike
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Noel