Bought a Nettar 517/16, some MF questions!

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POSTI-Tuomo

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EDIT: Slightly OT, as it isn't a RF Folder!

Congratulate the happy owner of a Zeiss Ikon Nettar. 😀 I have entered the realm of Medium Format photography. A bunch of questions, though:

1. How do you ensure that the film doesn't get accidentally exposed when opening the back? I think it has some sort of paper, but not sure 'bout that...

2. And what happens when the take up spool is taken off? How do I store the exposed film? Do I have to take it to the lab with the film still wrapped around that spool? I have one spare spool...

3. Is there a way to mask the film plane so that I may take 6x4.5 negs instead? Or does that screw the red window counter?

Hmm well, can't think of any other Qs at this point. Feel free to inform me of any important details I haven't considered yet. 🙂
 
Congratulations!
I don't know any specifics about the Nettar, but in general:
1. 120 film has a paper backing that encloses the film before and after use. You'll see what I mean when you've opened your first roll.

2. The film winds from spool to spool and remains on the take up spool until processing. After the film is shot, you keep winding on and when you take the film out, the feed spool is moved from the feed side to the take up side to serve as the take up spool for the next roll. I don't know if a) the original Zeiss spool is in the camera or b) if they are collectible or not but you might want to use another spool and keep the one in the camera?(better knowledgeable folks than I should have better info about this!)

3. There probably is some way of masking the film gate, but that will affect the frame counting; the 645 and 6x6 formats each have their own set of frame numbers. Some one who knows the Nettar you have should be able to sort this out for you.
Rob
EDIT: This site may be helpful:http://www.amdmacpherson.com/classiccameras/zeiss/zeissindex.html
The nettar is down the page a bit.
POSTI-Tuomo said:
EDIT: Slightly OT, as it isn't a RF Folder!

Congratulate the happy owner of a Zeiss Ikon Nettar. 😀 I have entered the realm of Medium Format photography. A bunch of questions, though:

1. How do you ensure that the film doesn't get accidentally exposed when opening the back? I think it has some sort of paper, but not sure 'bout that...

2. And what happens when the take up spool is taken off? How do I store the exposed film? Do I have to take it to the lab with the film still wrapped around that spool? I have one spare spool...

3. Is there a way to mask the film plane so that I may take 6x4.5 negs instead? Or does that screw the red window counter?

Hmm well, can't think of any other Qs at this point. Feel free to inform me of any important details I haven't considered yet. 🙂
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rbiemer said:
2. The film winds from spool to spool and remains on the take up spool until processing. After the film is shot, you keep winding on and when you take the film out, the feed spool is moved from the feed side to the take up side to serve as the take up spool for the next roll. I don't know if a) the original Zeiss spool is in the camera or b) if they are collectible or not but you might want to use another spool and keep the one in the camera?(better knowledgeable folks than I should have better info about this!)

Rob
Click to expand...

Ohhhh, how clever! I have a spool inside, though it's unmarked. Can't post a photo for confirmation since my digital camera died. Well well, very simple yet ingenious system.
Do you have to secure the exposed film around the spool somehow once you're finished with the roll?
 
Yes. There will be either a self adhesive or "lick and stick" adhesive strip when you get to the end of the film. I think that Fuji film uses self adhesive strips and Kodak and others the lick and stick sort. Once you see the films , it's pretty straight forward.
Rob
POSTI-Tuomo said:
Ohhhh, how clever! I have a spool inside, though it's unmarked. Can't post a photo for confirmation since my digital camera died. Well well, very simple yet ingenious system.
Do you have to secure the exposed film around the spool somehow once you're finished with the roll?
Click to expand...
 
Congratulations -- you'll have fun with this. I suggest you not shoot wider than f8 for best results, since these cameras aren't best at wide apertures.

1. This camera is made for 120 film only (not 220) so yes, there is paper backing on the film, which has printed on it the frame numbers. The little red window in the back is what you use to count the frames. But to your main question, unlike 35mm film, with medium format you wind the film all the way on to the take-up spool and leave behind the spool that held the film. When you open the back, remove the spool with the exposed film, wet the piece of tape that's attached to it and wrap that tightly around the film to make sure it doesn't unwind and get exposed.

2. As I mentioned above, medium format film is wound from one spool to another spool. So if you're starting out you need one empty spool, and from then on you'll be OK. I have no idea what film labs do with all those spools once they remove the film from them, but I bet you could get as many as you want from them if you ask!

3. I'm sure if you're skilled you could come up with a workable mask -- I imagine others on this forum have done this already. But since the red window is positioned only for 6x6, you'll simply have much wider spaced 6x4.5 frames, so you won't gain any extra exposures.
 
Right, I'll get to buying film tomorrow. B&W it shall be. I think two rolls will do for now; one Ilford, one Kodak.

rbiemer said:
Yes. There will be either a self adhesive or "lick and stick" adhesive strip when you get to the end of the film. I think that Fuji film uses self adhesive strips and Kodak and others the lick and stick sort. Once you see the films , it's pretty straight forward.
Rob
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Thanks, man! I think I could fasion a mask out of some thin, yet rather rigid piece of plastic. Some Blu-tack to hold it in place and voilá! I don't mind wasting some film, it's the artistic impression that counts. 🙂

KoNickon said:
Congratulations -- you'll have fun with this. I suggest you not shoot wider than f8 for best results, since these cameras aren't best at wide apertures.

3. I'm sure if you're skilled you could come up with a workable mask -- I imagine others on this forum have done this already. But since the red window is positioned only for 6x6, you'll simply have much wider spaced 6x4.5 frames, so you won't gain any extra exposures.
Click to expand...
 
I realized that based on the model number, this is the same as one I have -- the so-called "Signal-Nettar" because it has the little red indicator that appears in the viewfinder to tell you the film is wound. A very nicely made camera, and small and lightweight. The Novar lens, like all three element designs, does fine at smaller apertures but not as well as lenses with four or more elements when you shoot at, say, f4. But try it out! Of course using a smaller aperture is easier when you're estimating distances.
 
Luckily it's summer and we have lots of light even into the late evening... Going hyperfocal is the answer. 🙂 In general, I think this type of camera requires a bit different approach; more consideration and pre-planning and less snap-shooting. Correct me if I'm wrong. 😉

KoNickon said:
I realized that based on the model number, this is the same as one I have -- the so-called "Signal-Nettar" because it has the little red indicator that appears in the viewfinder to tell you the film is wound. A very nicely made camera, and small and lightweight. The Novar lens, like all three element designs, does fine at smaller apertures but not as well as lenses with four or more elements when you shoot at, say, f4. But try it out! Of course using a smaller aperture is easier when you're estimating distances.
Click to expand...

Yep, I found that manual some hours earlier while I was searching the net for info. It's a treasure trove for us hobbyists... I'll scan the negs as soon as I get a scanner, a bit undecided in that department. Maybe an Epson V700. Expect an influx of photos, I have hundreds of negs scattered around in my apartment just waiting to be scanned. 🙂

rbiemer said:
If you want/need a manual, look here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/zeiss_ikon/zeiss_ikon_nettar/zeiss_ikon_nettar.htm
Have fun with it and share some results!
Rob
Click to expand...
 
If you can get your hands on a few rolls of ADOX 120 film (i.e., from PhotoImpex) they come in very handy cans, like those for 35mm film. Even if you lick&stick, the roll might get torn open in the pocket/bag.

2c, /J
 
Looks handy. That brand isn't available here, as far as I know. But the idea certainly is easy to grasp... I'll make cans myself! 🙂

jobo said:
If you can get your hands on a few rolls of ADOX 120 film (i.e., from PhotoImpex) they come in very handy cans, like those for 35mm film. Even if you lick&stick, the roll might get torn open in the pocket/bag.

2c, /J
Click to expand...
 
OK. Burned through the first roll of Delta 100.

Observations:

1. You can go very quickly through a roll of 12 exposures!

2. I found myself thinking about the process of taking a photo more than with a 35mm camera. I gave more consideration to the technical aspects; I refrained from shooting if the scene wasn't satisfying.

3. Loading and winding the film is convenient (as long as you remember to wind immediately after taking a photograph!) Got some accidental double exposures. 😉

4. Taking photos with the Nettar is a blissful and addictive activity.

5. You get amused and interested looks from people. 😀
 
Ah well, you're hooked now.

Having only 12 shots really transforms the whole process -- far more contemplative and yes, relaxing.

I gave my teenager a cleaned up Rolleicord Vb and I'll never forget the way she looked at me with disbelief on our first shooting trip together "really, 12 shots? That's it?" -- raised on digital, sigh. No more "fire, ready, aim" photography!

And I still remind myself to wind after every shot -- becomes a mantra.

And I love the way those Nettars look.. just what I need another camera. Sigh.

Enjoy and your V700 should do a good job, you might have to adjust the spacers on the holder to optimize.

Best,

JT
 
JCT said:
Enjoy and your V700 should do a good job, you might have to adjust the spacers on the holder to optimize.

Best,

JT
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what there is to optimize. I haven't had the chance to lay my hands on that piece of engineering yet. Care to elaborate?

Regards,

Tuomo
 
POSTI-Tuomo said:
I'm not sure what there is to optimize. I haven't had the chance to lay my hands on that piece of engineering yet. Care to elaborate?

Regards,

Tuomo
Click to expand...
Of course. The negative holders have small plastic pieces that can be adjusted to change the distance between the negative and the glass of the flatbed. Looks something like this: (and yes I took up photography because I cannot draw 🙁 )

O |_-->_| +

The box above is the plastic spacer . To adjust the height you pull the spacer out, flip it 180 degrees and replace it. There are a number of them on each negative carrier and it is important that the arrow on the spacers all point to either the "O" or the "+" so the carrier stays even.

You have to test each type of negative (35mm or 6x6) to see whether the "O" or "+" orientation looks best.

Hope that helps-- enjoy!

JT
 
ikonta nettar

ikonta nettar

Hey Hey,

remember to close the window on the back. Yust bought a sekonic 398 studio lightmeter and now I am totaly battery independand.
These cameras are not only addictiv but great users to.
Foto with novar 75mm 6.3 on macophot up 100
 

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Hey Mr. Belgium! Nice sample pic. Gotta love that creamy look of the OOF area. And its area of focus is reasonably sharp. 🙂

I have three rolls worth of experience with this camera, and I have to recite the old wisdom: Less is More.

Let me clarify. With fewer combinations of shutter speeds and diaphragm settings I find myself fiddling less with the settings and concentrating more on the other steps of taking the photo. With ISO 400 film, a yellow filter and Sunny 16 as my guide, I have had success. And yet I don't have the scans to prove my words right. 😀
 
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