Iyidin_Kyeimo
Member
Ok, anyone who doesn't believe the truth movement's conspiracy theory (the government's version being a consiracy theory also), please attack the following points and explain how a pancake collapse can fit. Attack the evidence only, and remember Sherlock Holmes: "When we have eliminated the impossible, the improbably must be true":
0) The plane impacts caused very little damage. The buildings were specifically designed to withstand multiple jetliner impacts with redundancy to share the load of damaged columns. The buildings vibrated at their natural frequency indicating no structural damage and even the commission's report has the impacts only real contribution as knocking some fireproofing off some of the steel..
1) The buildings turn to dust at the start of the collapse. Not after a huge fall.
2) Pieces of steel are launched 100m+ from the top of the collapse.
3) The collapse happens in free fall. The pancake collapse requires the top floors to blast through all ~80+ undamaged steel reinforced concrete floors beneath the damaged ones as if it was merely thin air (even at the start without momentum).
5) The collapses are symetrical. This requires every single steel beam (the 47 central columns that the official report pretended did not exist! and the many perimeter columns) weakened at exactly the same moment and every resistance encountered below was equally perfectly symetrical all the way down.
6) Pancake collapses result in both remaining layered floors and the support columns intact standing tall (the official story has the floors only detaching from the columns). Neither was seen.
7) The steel beams were found cut up in neat ~30ft lengths. This is standard demolition practice for ease of removal.
8) No fire has previously caused any building to collapse.
e.g. The First Interstate Bank Fire
The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. 5
A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans.
9) The WTC itself previously experienced a fire. It lasted for several hours and engulfed a number of floors. However, the steel beams didn't even need to be replaced.
10) Jet fuel and oxygen mixed perfectly can only burn at ~1000ºC, 500ºC lower than needed to melt steel. However, the black smoke showed that the fire was far from optimal.
11) Most of the fuel burnt off outside and the remainder in a few minutes. Therefore the report asks us to believe that a paper fire can significantly weaken steel in an hour.
12) The commission's report admitted that there was no evidence for any of the steel to have reached temperatures above 230ºC
13) Underwriter Laboratories certified the steel to keep its strength after being exposed to 1000ºC for 6 hours. Even significantly weakened, the buildings should stand, such is the redundancy.
14) An audiotape of firefighter communications revealed that firefighters had reached the 78th floor sky lobby of the South Tower and were enacting a plan to evacuate people and put out the "two pockets of fire" they found, just before the tower was destroyed. i.e. the fire was going out. Then it collapsed.... hmm..
15) Explosions are heard by eyewitnesses and recorded on seismographs at nearby universities moments before the planes hit.
16) The residue tested by Steve Jones showed evidence of Thermate, not Thermite. A varient specifically patented for demolition. Is includes sulphur and other trace elements. The report itself noticed "sulphurisation" of the steel but offered no explanation.
That's just WTC 1&2.
Now, WTC 7
17) Not hit by a plane, damaged very slightly on one side only yet collapsed completely and symmetrically.
18) Larry Silverstein on PBS: "I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
Won't get into the pentagon or the abundance of evidence for people profiting.. yet..
Sceptics, please answer every point. Notice that controlled demolition explains everything perfectly and the only improbable bit is planting the explosives. Yet there was ample oppportunity with power-cuts, removal of bomb sniffing dogs and systematic fire drills allowing workmen in and out.. oh, and Marvin Bush and one of Bush's cousins on the board of directors of the security firm for the WTC complex.
0) The plane impacts caused very little damage. The buildings were specifically designed to withstand multiple jetliner impacts with redundancy to share the load of damaged columns. The buildings vibrated at their natural frequency indicating no structural damage and even the commission's report has the impacts only real contribution as knocking some fireproofing off some of the steel..
1) The buildings turn to dust at the start of the collapse. Not after a huge fall.
2) Pieces of steel are launched 100m+ from the top of the collapse.
3) The collapse happens in free fall. The pancake collapse requires the top floors to blast through all ~80+ undamaged steel reinforced concrete floors beneath the damaged ones as if it was merely thin air (even at the start without momentum).
5) The collapses are symetrical. This requires every single steel beam (the 47 central columns that the official report pretended did not exist! and the many perimeter columns) weakened at exactly the same moment and every resistance encountered below was equally perfectly symetrical all the way down.
6) Pancake collapses result in both remaining layered floors and the support columns intact standing tall (the official story has the floors only detaching from the columns). Neither was seen.
7) The steel beams were found cut up in neat ~30ft lengths. This is standard demolition practice for ease of removal.
8) No fire has previously caused any building to collapse.
e.g. The First Interstate Bank Fire
The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. 5
A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans.
9) The WTC itself previously experienced a fire. It lasted for several hours and engulfed a number of floors. However, the steel beams didn't even need to be replaced.
10) Jet fuel and oxygen mixed perfectly can only burn at ~1000ºC, 500ºC lower than needed to melt steel. However, the black smoke showed that the fire was far from optimal.
11) Most of the fuel burnt off outside and the remainder in a few minutes. Therefore the report asks us to believe that a paper fire can significantly weaken steel in an hour.
12) The commission's report admitted that there was no evidence for any of the steel to have reached temperatures above 230ºC
13) Underwriter Laboratories certified the steel to keep its strength after being exposed to 1000ºC for 6 hours. Even significantly weakened, the buildings should stand, such is the redundancy.
14) An audiotape of firefighter communications revealed that firefighters had reached the 78th floor sky lobby of the South Tower and were enacting a plan to evacuate people and put out the "two pockets of fire" they found, just before the tower was destroyed. i.e. the fire was going out. Then it collapsed.... hmm..
15) Explosions are heard by eyewitnesses and recorded on seismographs at nearby universities moments before the planes hit.
16) The residue tested by Steve Jones showed evidence of Thermate, not Thermite. A varient specifically patented for demolition. Is includes sulphur and other trace elements. The report itself noticed "sulphurisation" of the steel but offered no explanation.
That's just WTC 1&2.
Now, WTC 7
17) Not hit by a plane, damaged very slightly on one side only yet collapsed completely and symmetrically.
18) Larry Silverstein on PBS: "I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
Won't get into the pentagon or the abundance of evidence for people profiting.. yet..
Sceptics, please answer every point. Notice that controlled demolition explains everything perfectly and the only improbable bit is planting the explosives. Yet there was ample oppportunity with power-cuts, removal of bomb sniffing dogs and systematic fire drills allowing workmen in and out.. oh, and Marvin Bush and one of Bush's cousins on the board of directors of the security firm for the WTC complex.
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