Out to Lunch
Ventor
When does 135 film goes off? I've had up to 150 rolls of 135mm film -mostly color 200 and 400 ISO stored in a black tote in a climate controlled warehouse for a period of 4 years. Most of this film expired some 1.5 to 2 years prior. I am planning to bring it with me to SE Asia in a few weeks time. What to expect in terms of picture quality?
Huss
Veteran
If it is store properly i.e. cold, it lasts forever... Just realized all my C200 I've been shooting expired in 2015.
Sample of 4 year expired C200:
And lets push it back further. This is from a roll of Kodak E100 I just shot. It expired in 2001, so almost 19 years old:
Both films were shot at box speed. There is 'conventional wisdom' that says you are meant to add 1 stop of exposure for every 10 years aged, but I have no idea who made that up, and why people believe it. Because what matters is if the film has been hit with heat during its storage. That's why all film has instructions on the box stating to keep it cool.
I have not added any compensation for age, and the results speak for themselves.
Sample of 4 year expired C200:
And lets push it back further. This is from a roll of Kodak E100 I just shot. It expired in 2001, so almost 19 years old:
Both films were shot at box speed. There is 'conventional wisdom' that says you are meant to add 1 stop of exposure for every 10 years aged, but I have no idea who made that up, and why people believe it. Because what matters is if the film has been hit with heat during its storage. That's why all film has instructions on the box stating to keep it cool.
I have not added any compensation for age, and the results speak for themselves.
Ricoh
Well-known
I'm glad this topic has come up.
I store mine in the fridge at about +5C; there's no room in the freezer (we have two) since they're stuffed with food. Does +5C qualify as being cold enough for ong storage, eg 5 to 10 years?
I store mine in the fridge at about +5C; there's no room in the freezer (we have two) since they're stuffed with food. Does +5C qualify as being cold enough for ong storage, eg 5 to 10 years?
HHPhoto
Well-known
That depends on film speed and storage condition. The lower the film speed, the better generally the long-term stability of the emulsion.
TMZ, Delta 3200, Superia 1600, Portra 800 have much much shorter lifespans than ISO 100 films e.g.
The colder the storage temperature, the longer the film last.
If it was below 15°C in that warehouse, then probably the films will be o.k.
Cheers, Jan
HHPhoto
Well-known
+5°C is good for at least 5 years storage for films up to ISO 400. That I know from my own experiences with color films of that speed.
Cheers, Jan
Steve M.
Veteran
For sure there is a date that at some point it will be an issue, but you should be fine. Even freezing the film will not prevent eventual deterioration. The problem comes from cosmic rays from space (sounds like a 50's sci fi movie, doesn't it?), and they penetrate everything and everyone. Even though we can't see or feel them, they're always there. This will will eventually fog the film. That's why there's use-by dates on the films. The faster the film, the sooner it becomes fogged.
Ricoh
Well-known
Thank you. I rest reasonably relaxed now you've informed me. My trouble, I buy film even though I already have too much. I must stop buying, but when bulk offers appear I'm hooked.
markjwyatt
Well-known
I have around 10 rolls of Kodak Vericolor III, 220, expired in 1994 (5 roll Pro Pack) and 1996 (5 roll Pro Pack). I found them in my dad's garage (southern California, insulated, but not cooled, so likely 85+ Deg. F every summer). I imagine he had them in the refrigerator up to some point, then just gave up on them and stuck them in a drawer.
I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed).
This guy shot at ISO 20. I am not sure it is even worth shooting.
https://schneidan.com/2016/04/19/expired-film-day-2016-results-kodak-vericolor-iii-vps/
I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed).
This guy shot at ISO 20. I am not sure it is even worth shooting.
https://schneidan.com/2016/04/19/expired-film-day-2016-results-kodak-vericolor-iii-vps/
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Thanks, for your feedback. I am reassured and will bring as much film as I can carry. Once in Asia, I'll put it in the freezer.
randy stewart
Established
expired vericolor
expired vericolor
"I have around 10 rolls of Kodak Vericolor III, 220, expired in 1994 (5 roll Pro Pack) and 1996 (5 roll Pro Pack). I found them in my dad's garage (southern California, insulated, but not cooled, so likely 85+ Deg. F every summer). I imagine he had them in the refrigerator up to some point, then just gave up on them and stuck them in a drawer.
I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed)."
Vericolor (L & S) was marketed as a Pro film. It was stored cold and expected to be quickly shot and processed, so it was not designed to have a long shelf life. It had very accurate color if used as planned, and then it went "off" quickly, like 12 months. 20 years in a drawer up to 85 degrees would not be worth shooting, nor of any particular interest i would think.
expired vericolor
"I have around 10 rolls of Kodak Vericolor III, 220, expired in 1994 (5 roll Pro Pack) and 1996 (5 roll Pro Pack). I found them in my dad's garage (southern California, insulated, but not cooled, so likely 85+ Deg. F every summer). I imagine he had them in the refrigerator up to some point, then just gave up on them and stuck them in a drawer.
I am thinking maybe shoot them at ISO 6-12 (if I even want to spend the money to process them!). I may just run exposure tests on one roll of the 1994, and go from there, i.e., ISO 6, 12, 25, 50, 100, 160 (box speed)."
Vericolor (L & S) was marketed as a Pro film. It was stored cold and expected to be quickly shot and processed, so it was not designed to have a long shelf life. It had very accurate color if used as planned, and then it went "off" quickly, like 12 months. 20 years in a drawer up to 85 degrees would not be worth shooting, nor of any particular interest i would think.
Huss
Veteran
Defininitely. He should send it to me, I will dispose of it appropriately.
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
This is Fujifilm Superia X-Tra 400, expiry 2009.08, stored in a friend's loft in the north of England (so warm in really hot summers and damp & miserable the remaining 364 days of the year). I gave it an extra stop of exposure. The colours took on a lovely vintage look, but about 1 in 5 of the exposures had colour shifts (like the third below).
Southall in West London, full of Indian colour.
Southall in West London, full of Indian colour.
valdas
Veteran
I have recently bought additional 60 rolls of Superia 100 expired in 2011. I bought it previously from the same seller, he claims it is from temperature controlled warehouse, and I tested it looks good, so now my freezer is full of old Superia 100 (>100 rolls). When the price is about 2 EUR per roll... I love expired film.
tbhv55
Well-known
As distinct from the South of England, where it's damp & miserable only on the remaining 362 days of the year.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
In conclusion, film expiry dates don't really mean a thing...
dourbalistar
Buy more film
I think storage conditions probably matters much more, but the expiry date is one data point to consider if you can't be certain about storage conditions.
Like beer, expired film is best kept chilled. This is Fujicolor Pro 400H ten years past expiry, shot two stops overexposed at E.I. 100 for good measure. You can argue whether or not the overexposure was truly necessary, but I won't argue too much as I'm happy with the results.
Hasselblad 500 C/M, Zeiss Planar T* 80mm f/2.8 CF, 8mm extension tube, Fujifilm Fujicolor Pro 400H, expired in 2008, at E.I. 100.
2018.04.14 Roll #149-000919570012.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Well, you seem to prove my point...
dourbalistar
Buy more film
Since you know the storage conditions of your (relatively recently) expired film, I would say you could probably shoot it without any added measures. You could shoot a test roll from the batch to be sure.
Since I didn't know the storage conditions of my expired film, I followed a rule of thumb to add one stop of over-exposure for each decade past expiry, plus one more stop per my normal preference for overexposing negative film. In my case, the date of expiry was useful information that I took into consideration.
As always, your mileage may vary.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Aloha dourbalistar! I'll first shoot the filmm as is and if if turns out poorly, I'll follow your protocol. Cheers, Peter
fs999
Member
Plaubel Makina 67
Agfachrome RSX II 100 expired in 2004, stored in freezer since buy and developped in Tetenal Colortec E-6
Scanned with Plustek OpticFilm 120 at 2400dpi with Silverfast AI Studio
Le Grau-du-Roi • Gard • Provence • France
Agfachrome RSX II 100 expired in 2004, stored in freezer since buy and developped in Tetenal Colortec E-6
Scanned with Plustek OpticFilm 120 at 2400dpi with Silverfast AI Studio
Le Grau-du-Roi • Gard • Provence • France