2 Kiev 4am's and lens decisions

[Simplify]

I am trying to decide how to put a little kit together for quick snapshots. I am new to Rangefinder so I thought I'd ask here. I am thinking since these cameras and lenses are inexpensive compared to Leica or Contax:

Is it possible to adjust the focal length of the Rangefinder on the actual cameras body and forgo the external finder accesory? I would like to adjust 2 of the bodies to 35mm & 85mm view.

I would love to have three bodies to grab and snap with Rangefinder adjusted on the camera body itself like this:

1. Kiev 4am with Helios-103 53mm f/1.8
2. Kiev 4am with J-12 35mm f/2.8
3. Kiev 4am with J-9 85mm f/2.0

Is this possible?

Thanks!

ps. 28mm, 35mm, 60mm would be ideal! - I don't think there is a 60mm mount. The 28mm is expensive.

 

[Ash]

you could etch 85mm framelines on the viewfinder, or create a mask so that you only see the 85 fov, but you can't alter the magnification to become a 35mm I dont think. Far as I know, the Kiev's vf/rf window is made to represent the field of view of a 50mm lens.

There's not that much trouble with an external viewfinder, grab the bargain-priced helios finder. It has the framelines you want, and stick some fast film in the camera. You could always use scale focus and slow aperture settings if you didnt want to swap between the camera's vf and the external to focus and compose.

 

[Simplify]

grab the bargain-priced helios finder. It has the framelines you want, and stick some fast film in the camera.

Thanks, I'll look for this accessory. Our daughter just moved to Europe so I am thinking of the perfect travel kit for when we pay our annual visit. 3 bodies & 3 lenses seems quick and convenient. I like the ability to handhold at slow speeds too. I can't do that with SLR and that kit is HEAVY! My family will not wait around for me to fiddle with equipment before I can snap a picture. I need to be ready to snap quickly or be left behind.

Is this the right one?
http://www.fedka.com/catalog/produc...id=83&osCsid=f49937e847d7f5ba48e9c7540f5dbdd2

 

[Ash]

Well the fiddling about shouldn't be a problem, but you picked the fiddliest camera!!

Kiev's take a little while to learn to load. That's the one thing that will cause more impatience than anything else.

I was talking about this finder: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Helios-Mk2-Vi...2135058QQihZ017QQcategoryZ29982QQcmdZViewItem (no association to the auction, and they're available from some online stores rather than the bay). It's more compact, and much less squinty than the turret finder.

You'll find that fumbling around with 3 cameras in your bag or around your neck will become as much of a hassle as merely having 2 bodies and alternating the 3rd lens.

 

[Simplify]

Yes, that is NICE and MUCH smaller! I need to find one of those!

Thanks for your input on carrying vs. changing lenses. The 4am's back is not attached but the spool is ... so reloading is not so bad.

I'll definitely consider your advise for 2 bodies & 3 lenses.

I'm new so this user advise is helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Xmas]

I normally carry 2x Kievs, 2xJ12, 2x turret viewfinders, 5, 8.5 and 13.5 cm lens, filters and hoods, monopod if it is going to get dark

Sometimes 3x Kievs.

The turret viewfinders are large but useful.

This will be heavy, heavy if you are walking, after the first 10 miles.

Noel.

 

[Simplify]

Do you find you can change lenses quickly? That is sort of a concern. I read in the manual that both body and lens must be set on infinity.

Just a lens change can knock rangefinder out of allignment. Perhaps i'm making a mountain out of a mole hill ... but that's what I've read on various forums etc.

 

[Ash]

With kiev's its a lot more difficult to knock out the rangefinder accuracy, and the baselength will mean if it's out, it won't be as noticeable until its REALLY badly out. The focusing system for 50mm lenses is on the body of the camera, this makes it a little more sturdy than the little tabs and wheels on screwmount RF's I would have thought.

I've messed about with changing lenses on my Kiev 4a and had no problems so far. On a screwmount I've managed to cock up the rangefinder with a single bash!

 

[Xmas]

A kiev normally needs a drop or hard bang to upset its rfdr, note like other RU or CV cameras.

The 28mm Orion is expensive and its optical performance limited, but you can still get new 12, 24 and 28mm CV lens e.g. from Robert White, a sponsor. The price for these will harden once the stocks are exhausted, the adopter for the 12 and 15mm seems to be sold out, bet it will be expensive 2nd hand.

Noel

 

[Xmas]

P.S.
Changeing Contax (Kiev) lens is as slow as leica screw thread, yes you need everything at infinity and you (may) need to focus to near to initialise the rangefinder.

 

[Simplify]

What is a CV lens?

 

[Xmas]

Sorry, too abstract

Voightlander or Cosina-V

Try the sponsors sites, several still have stocks. Cosina only do small batches.

Noel

 

[Simplify]

Thanks! I'll check it out. I really would love an affordable 28mm!

 

[Ash]

I'd hardly call the 28mm affordable...

 

[Xmas]

Ash

I recall you were more interested in a new body which is more £ than a typical Kiev... I do accept that a 28mm is too much £ for me, I rarely use wider than 35mm even when I have a 28mm.

But the CV 28mm wipes the floor optically with the Orion on reputation, and may be cheaper. You might get one (CV) second hand but this wont be cheap given you are competing with both of the CV body, pre WWII contax I & II and post WWII contax IIa as well as Nikon rgfdr owners, you have been spoilt. The J12 wont fit some of these cameras. The Nikon and Zeiss optics are even more expensive e.g. the Zeiss 21mm is 1000.00£ in good condition and it is cheap compared with a Nikon 21mm.

When the last of the CV new stocks are sold what do you think will happen, to their 2nd hand prices, cynical dealers say they are instant classics... The CV 21mm is optically better (design wise) then a Zeiss even if the build standard is in a different world, - e.g. the glass in the CV is higher in refractive index.

Noel

 

[Simplify]

Thanks to both of you for your help. I went ahead and ordered the 35mm, 85mm, 135mm and the big ugly turret. I'll use it until I can find a helios. That looks much smaller and brighter and suits my tastes much better.

After seeing the prices of some of the 28's, I am forgoing that focal length. I'll see how I do with these more affordable lenses in my kit.

Now all we need is film, passports and plane tickets! Finally, an excuse to travel!

What brand of color film do you use most? I've only been shooting B&W. All my color has been coming from a very heavy D-SLR kit. I would NOT want to travel with it ever!

I'd prefer print film and mailers. I'll be doing tourist stuff so interiors, outdoors, people, and stuff.

Thanks! You've been most helpful!

 

[Xmas]

I'd try any Kiev bodies and lens out at home, before I went on holiday, depending on them. For example both Ash and I have had troubles with:-

- the J12 35mm - there is some probability that the J12 wont mount properly - low, and a greater probability that a J12 wont focus easily - higher.
- the frame spacing - this tends to vary from wide to almost overlapping as you go through the film, one of my Kiev will damage sprocket holes, and then overlap frames (by the one or two missing sprocket holes).

I dont think Ash has had problems with:

- sprocket hole damage
- light leaks
- shutter capping problems
- snapping 'silk' ribbons
- etc.

And yes I've discovered some of these problems on holiday, i.e. on holiday slides...

I tend to have to rebuild, to be fair some of mine have been bought as parts cameras, and did not need much to make them shooters, so I needed to buy another parts camera etc, an unfortunate variation of GAS. It is probably desirable to buy from one of the sources that warrants that the camera has had a CLA & will work, rather than from private e-bay sources.

Some people prefer the pre '72 cameras which seem to have a nicer finish and a better build quality but these attract a small $ premium. The AM does have a fixed spool, with a nicer loading mechanism. Some of the AM come with the Helios which is a Planar style lens (rather then the J8 triplet/Sonnar) and has higher refractive glass and should in theory perform better off axis, however some of these lens have poorer element edge blacking and will consequently flare more easily, the J8 seems to be a better compromise. the very early pre '55 cameras are even nicer, if you can get one which has not been sandblasted, etc.

If you plan on using two bodeis you may need two viewfinders as the Kiev shoe mounts can be tight (which is good) and need time to swap shoe accessories. The multiple turrets look horrible but are practical. I'd like a 28mm to but they are all >>$.

I only use chrome film and B/W, cannot help you on that. ash does not like the built in meters but many of them still work, even for chrome film.

But I still use my Kievs almost exclusively. I'd note a Kiev and standard lens are really heavy, they are brass cameras and solid metal, most DLSR are poly carbonate/plastic and feather weight. I carry two bodies and five lens hill walking and it is good excersise, 2x3.5, 5, 8.5 & 13.5.

The Contax was used by professional photographers, e.g. I think Capa, but they are an acquired taste.

 

[Ash]

I've had frame spacing problems, bout it. I bought my kiev from Spark303 on the forum, so it was well taken care of.

No light leak problems, I make sure the sprockets are correctly aligned and the film tight against them before closing the back.

If you get a good one, then there are only minor things that are bad - of course I can't mount a J-12 comfortably.

 

[Xmas]

The light leaks can be

- black paper inside the viewfinder area becoming unglued or/and
- black string between the back and the camera's going missing

Noel

 

[oscroft]

I went ahead and ordered the 35mm, 85mm, 135mm and the big ugly turret. I'll use it until I can find a helios.

Hi. I've got a spare (brand new, with case) Helios finder if you're interested - drop me a PM or an email.