Leica LTM 21, 25, 28 - Help me decide

[02Pilot]

So here's my dilemma, or at least my current GAS-related mental time suck. I recently acquired an Olympus XA4, and soon discovered that I was rather pleased with the 28mm FOV (it is my first camera with a 28mm lens). I thus began thinking about getting a 28 in LTM, which is my primary system.

The choices, especially with a relatively limited budget for such a thing, are few. The Canon 28/3.5 seems well-regarded, as does the CV 28/3.5. I have used other lenses from both manufacturers and get along well with the ergonomics. Other options seems a lot pricier.

In researching my options, I came across several mentions of the Snapshot Skopar 25/4, which is intriguing to me. I tend to zone focus anyway, so the lack of RF coupling is not a problem, and I like the click-stops for focus (another thing I learned from the XA4).

I already have a 21, specifically a Color Skopar 21/4. I enjoy it, though I am still trying to learn how to use it effectively. Some shots are great, while others don't really resemble what I was trying to achieve. The 28 seems to get consistent results more easily for me.

One last consideration is that I use my LTM lenses on my Fuji X-E1 as well as my film cameras. The 21 becomes a 32 or so, which is very handy; a 25 would be about a 38 equivalent, while a 28 would be a 42. I'm not sure why I needed to state the obvious there - perhaps it was just for my own thought process.

Anyway, I obviously don't need three lenses so close together, and I'm not sure I even need two. If I were to keep two, it would have to be the 21 and a 28, but cutting down to one is much harder to figure out. So I'd like to hear opinions on 1) how many lenses you would choose in this situation, and 2) which lens(es) you would pick and why.

 

[Rob-F]

If you didn't already have the 21mm, a 25mm would probably be a good choice, since 25mm is usually wide enough. But you do have a 21mm, and the Color Skopar is a great lens, so not much point in selling it. You seem drawn to 28mm, so I would definitely get that. Then you'd have a 21 and a 28, and they are well spaced, and the 21 will still be wide enough on the crop camera.

 

[Richard G]

Good discussion by Rob on the focal length. I would think seriously about the Snapshot Skopar precisely because of the click stop focus. I don't have it, but I think the idea is brilliant. I have the M mount version and it's tiny. Unfortunately mine flares a bit. I think 25 is easier to handle photographically than 21, although I have stuck with my C Biogon M mount 21 and I am now happy with that. Mind you, since getting a 28, which I thought I never would, the 21 is almost never in the bag. But back to the Snapshot 25: you might just bond with the ergonomics of that and the focal length doesn't matter. I get used to whatever new focal length I get, and I also mostly leave the house with one lens. That might be a 25 or a 28 or 35 or a 50 and I just make it work for the day. I'd love a snapshot click stop focus compact 50. With my tabbed lenses I've sort of learnt the distances by feel, but a click stop would be great.

 

[NeeZee]

I have the 25mm snapshot skopar and it's brilliant. I'm using it on IIIf and it suits the barnacks really well. Zone focussing works really well - to be honest, it's hard to get anything out of focus with this lens. It might also be the most affordable modern LTM lens. I can definitely recommend it.

 

[D.O'K.]

+1 to everything NeeZee said.

Regards,
D.

 

[02Pilot]

Unfortunately, it seems there's no obvious answer I was simply missing. Basically, it comes down to 21 and 28, or 25. I could probably sell the 21 and buy the 25 in a more or less straight swap price-wise. There's an appeal to that beyond the monetary, specifically that I wouldn't just be accumulating lenses rather than using them. I do like the idea of click-stops.

Before I make my final decision, any feedback on the Canon 28/3.5 vs. the CV 28/3.5? I've read a few discussions of each, but not much in the way of direct comparisons.

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

[ferider]

YHF, basically there are two types of people: some that like 28 (perspective with 2 eyes open), and some that prefer 2{1,4,5}/35. Once I figured out that 28 was my favorite focal length, I decided to never shoot anything wider. And I did try 21 & 15 before: they were addictive, but all photos coming out looked like lens tests 🙂

In any case, on B+W film, the Canon 28/3.5 and CV 28/3.5 are more or less the same. Both contrasty, rectilinear and sharp. There are also Avenon 28/3.5 (for example 161697524828@ebay), and Nikkor 28/3.5 (which I love). When I develop APX 100 in Rodinal, I basically see no difference between all of these lenses, except the older lenses being more prone to flare. Conversely, they have a nicer, more mellow rendition on color film, which I like.

The Avenon takes 43mm filters, but normal filters under the stock hood will vignette, so you need thin filters.

The CV is a little longer than the 3 other lenses, but the easiest to filter and it focuses down to 0.7m; so it is probably the most practical of the bunch. They are all more or less in the same price class, around 300 bucks or so.

Note that if you are willing to spend just a little more, you can get the 28/1.9 Ultron, which is IMO one of the best 28mm lenses out there. Amazing resolution f2.8 and up, rectilinear, and fast enough even for portraits.

Roland.

 

[FrankS]

25 is a good alternative for a 21 and 28. Only you can decide if that works for you. If you are a minimal gear type or are financially constrained, then the 25 is for you. If you are a zone focusing street shooter then the 25's focus click indents are very useful.

I began with a 25 but eventually moved to 21 and 28.

 

[uhoh7]

don't forget the 28 Ultron, either 1.9 or f/2. That kind of speed at 28 makes for high versatility. I see them often for around 400USD.

 

[02Pilot]

Interesting points. The speed of the Ultron is appealing but not necessary for me, and the size of the lens makes it a no-go. All things being equal I'd probably end up with the Canon, since I have a bunch of other Canon lenses and I'm familiar with them, plus the point of color rendition you mentioned; the CV would be an acceptable alternative, but they seem to be generally more expensive than the Canons.

I need to look at some photos from the Snapshot Skopar to get a better idea of what sort of perspective it provides, and see if I notice a significant difference from 28.

 

[Tompas]

I have 15, 21, 25, and 28mm (and other) lenses, and FWIW I use them as follows:

CV 4,5/15 permanently mounted on a Bessa T.
Snapshot Skopar 4/25 permanently mounted on a Leica MD-2.
CV 4/21, CV 2/28, Summicron-C 2/40 and Konica M-Hexanon 2/50 share my Leica M6.

I mostly use the MD-2 and the Snapshot Skopar together with the M6 and the Summicron-C, sometimes the M6 + Summicron-C with the Bessa + CV 4,5/15.

When I feel very wild I go out with the Bessa T + CV 4,5/15 and another Bessa T with a Leica Elmar-C 4/90mm.

The other lenses I rarely use. (I should probably sell them.)

The Snapshot Skopar is a very, very fine lens, and I find scale focusing a very liberating way to photograph.

 

[presspass]

What is your next lens up from a 28 or is there one? A balanced set, according to Erwin Putts, is 21/35/ 75. That works well for me, as does a 21/35/50/90. Either way, there's also a 135 on one of the Ms. It seems a 25/50/90 would work, as would a 28/50/90. How wide is too wide for you?

 

[Roger Hicks]

No-one can tell you.

My wife Frances likes 18 and 25.

I much prefer 15 and 21.

If we could afford it, we'd probably have a WATE (16-18-21) each.

What would suit you best? Dunno. Nor does anyone else: even you, until you try 'em.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Kate-the-Great]

I use the Canon 28mm 3.5 (early "Serenar" all-chromed version) on my X-E1 and it's my favorite lens for that body. It's performance is very nice at 5.6-11, but my sample has enormous field curvature and falloff wide-open- I like the effect as it can really accentuate a subject in the middle of the frame, but it's something to be aware of.

The overall performance of the Voigtlanders (or rarer Canon 28mm 2.8) will be better at larger apertures.

I agree that there's really no one right answer. If I were you I may be tempted to sell the 21mm and replace it with the 25 Skopar- I personally find the 24/25mm FL on 135-format more broadly useful than either 21 (so wide!) and 28mm (not wide enough!), and 25mm on the Fuji will be a nice wide-normal. The 25mm Skopar is also tied with the optically-inferior Canon 28 for the smallest lens of the bunch, if that's a concern.

 

[02Pilot]

Based on all the comments and some more rumination on my part, I'm inclining toward finding a Snapshot Skopar 25/4 to try out as my first step. The rationale is this: I know what 21 and 28 look like to my eye; if I get the 25 and it works well enough for me to make 21 and 28 unnecessary, I can sell the 21; if it doesn't, or I decide I need to keep the 21 for whatever reason, I can sell the 25 and find a 28. This seems to make a degree of sense to me, but what do I know?

Oh, for the record, my LTM lenses at the moment are 21/35/50/90/135.

 

[Kate-the-Great]

Oh, for the record, my LTM lenses at the moment are 21/35/50/90/135.

The "Dream Team"! 😎

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Don't hold your G.A.S. Buy all three and Bessa R4M(A). Explore them at their full capacity on the best ever made camera for them. Decide which to keep after.

 

[Godfrey]

The Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 would be my choice. It's an outstanding performer.

G

 

[taskoni]

M-Hexanon 28mm f/2.8 is a great performer, tough build and very sharp all the way.

Regards,

Boris

 

[BillBingham2]

The 25 snap-shot hands down

The 25 snap-shot hands down

I had the 25/4 snap-shot and loved it. On a Bessa L it was my do everything camera, Every Day Carry to barrow a phrase.

I trained to estimate each of clicks and quickly got really good at it. Put down a few marks on the sidewalk and practice practice practice. It's very easy to get good.

I shot for years with my Nikkor 24/2.8 and never liked the distortion though it was sharp as a tack. The CV 25 had no distortion and I never saw flair.

I'd keep the 21 for digital and pick up the 25 for film.

Of all the glass I sold I miss the flexibility and fast handling of the 25 Snap-Shoot the most. I'm thinking of a pair of CV glass for my wides (15 & 25) if I ever have the cash for a good digital system (1.5 X) I'll use the F mount 50 or 85 if I need a portrait lens.

Pick up a 25 snap-shot, you won't be sorry.

Frankly, my favorite lens ever.

B2