Crane
Member
I've recently acquired the vaunted 28mm f2 Summicron, and have been comparing results from it with those of my 4th version Elmarit 28mm.
I wanted to be wrong, but I have found that my humble Elmarit out-resolves my shiny Summicron at all apertures. The Summicron holds what resolution it has across the frame, but it just doesn't satisfy.
I have the 35 aspherical, and have never been disappointed with its performance in comparison to the Elmarit. I'm really shocked by the 28 Summicron. It seems impossible to use it close in, as I would with the Elmarit and the 35 f2, and expect good performance.
I've always used wides as though they were 'standards', but I think this Summicron is going to bend me to its designers' collective will. I have to keep it, as the financial hit from selling it on can't be contemplated (If I have a lens I regard as a dog, I tend to let it rot-down in the bottom of my bag for a few years, before taking the pain...) I won't return the Summicron to my dealer, as I love the guy - and, besides, it's my mistake, not his. I thought I 'd been so careful in my research of the lens, too. Obviously not.
Okay - so now you Cronites can queue-up to flame me, spurn me, and spit on me. Clearly, I deserve to die...
Crane
I wanted to be wrong, but I have found that my humble Elmarit out-resolves my shiny Summicron at all apertures. The Summicron holds what resolution it has across the frame, but it just doesn't satisfy.
I have the 35 aspherical, and have never been disappointed with its performance in comparison to the Elmarit. I'm really shocked by the 28 Summicron. It seems impossible to use it close in, as I would with the Elmarit and the 35 f2, and expect good performance.
I've always used wides as though they were 'standards', but I think this Summicron is going to bend me to its designers' collective will. I have to keep it, as the financial hit from selling it on can't be contemplated (If I have a lens I regard as a dog, I tend to let it rot-down in the bottom of my bag for a few years, before taking the pain...) I won't return the Summicron to my dealer, as I love the guy - and, besides, it's my mistake, not his. I thought I 'd been so careful in my research of the lens, too. Obviously not.
Okay - so now you Cronites can queue-up to flame me, spurn me, and spit on me. Clearly, I deserve to die...
Crane
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
Maybe your cron is out of spec. Let the dealer sent it to Solms under warranty for a check.
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
palec
Well-known
Do you have some images for comparison?
I don't have any of these lenses, but maybe your Summicron is not correctly assembled and should be inspected by technician while it's still under guarantee.
I don't have any of these lenses, but maybe your Summicron is not correctly assembled and should be inspected by technician while it's still under guarantee.
tomasis
Well-known
it must be assembled at wrong way as other said. check with solms. I hear everywhere that summicron is great.
elude
Some photographer
Check with your dealer.
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
Its said the version 4 also out resolves the new ASPH Elmarit as well so it may just be that the version 4 is a cut above the rest.
I always used to say that I have never found a Summicron I didn't like but I tried the 28mm and sorry to say I had found one that disappointed. The light falloff for this lens was really bad, the worse I have seen on any 28mm lens, and its one of my favourite focal lengths. Its not a bad lens by any stretch of the imagination but it wasn't inspiring either. Mind you we are in the minority, those that have this lens praise it highly. The faster speed for its size is nice but the chronic light falloff negated that so one of the Elmarits are the 28's of choice from the Leica range for me.
I always used to say that I have never found a Summicron I didn't like but I tried the 28mm and sorry to say I had found one that disappointed. The light falloff for this lens was really bad, the worse I have seen on any 28mm lens, and its one of my favourite focal lengths. Its not a bad lens by any stretch of the imagination but it wasn't inspiring either. Mind you we are in the minority, those that have this lens praise it highly. The faster speed for its size is nice but the chronic light falloff negated that so one of the Elmarits are the 28's of choice from the Leica range for me.
DwF
Well-known
my new lens!
my new lens!
I just picked up a 28 Elmarit Asph and got to take it out last night. It is a joy to use....reminds me of my old 8 element Summicron (sans lock) in that it is smaller than my 35 Asph. and handles effortlessly. Here a few from a street corner last night.
I was curious to try the 4th version Elmarit, but the size of this lens and a good deal precipitated my decision.
David
my new lens!
I just picked up a 28 Elmarit Asph and got to take it out last night. It is a joy to use....reminds me of my old 8 element Summicron (sans lock) in that it is smaller than my 35 Asph. and handles effortlessly. Here a few from a street corner last night.
I was curious to try the 4th version Elmarit, but the size of this lens and a good deal precipitated my decision.
David
Attachments
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Crane, I concur with your opinion on the 28 Summicron. I had one for a while, but found it inferior to my III/IV generation Elmarit's - particularly to the IV generation which is probably one of the best 28's you can find. So, it is a stop slower, but when I absoultely need the speed I use my VC 28f1.9 - edges are a bit softer than with the Summicron, but center sharpness is similar and by the time you hit f2.8-f4 they are equals.
I have to admit that my most frequently used 28 is a VC 28f3.5 LTM - in bl/w it has the nicest tonality of any lens I own, and it is plenty sharp too. The ZM 28f2.8 is similar to the III version 28f2.8 Elmarit and a bit below the IV in absolutes, but admittedly you have to start shooting Tech Pan on a tripod to see the difference.
A agree that you should have it send in for checking - if nothing else it will confirm your opinion if Leica says it is OK and it is a possibility that you might have a decentered element or flawed centering over all.
I have to admit that my most frequently used 28 is a VC 28f3.5 LTM - in bl/w it has the nicest tonality of any lens I own, and it is plenty sharp too. The ZM 28f2.8 is similar to the III version 28f2.8 Elmarit and a bit below the IV in absolutes, but admittedly you have to start shooting Tech Pan on a tripod to see the difference.
A agree that you should have it send in for checking - if nothing else it will confirm your opinion if Leica says it is OK and it is a possibility that you might have a decentered element or flawed centering over all.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
There is really no need for you to keep the lens if you don't like it. I don't think you have to protect the dealer. He can sell it to someone who needs f/2, or likes the overall signature rather than being as concerned as you are about resolution.
If the difference is only slight, it is probably attributable to the greater difficulty of designing and making an f/2 lens, compared to an f/2.8. The one-stop difference increases the difficulty of correcting and balancing the abberations by a factor of eight to one.
I can't say I'm at all disappointed with my 28mm Summicron. It seems fine compared to the version III I used to have. So if the difference is more than slight, you might consider that the lens may be out of spec.
The point of paying the extra cash to a dealer, as opposed to a private sale, is that you are protected in the event of a problem. So I don't think you should feel obligated to keep the lens if you don't want it.
If the difference is only slight, it is probably attributable to the greater difficulty of designing and making an f/2 lens, compared to an f/2.8. The one-stop difference increases the difficulty of correcting and balancing the abberations by a factor of eight to one.
I can't say I'm at all disappointed with my 28mm Summicron. It seems fine compared to the version III I used to have. So if the difference is more than slight, you might consider that the lens may be out of spec.
The point of paying the extra cash to a dealer, as opposed to a private sale, is that you are protected in the event of a problem. So I don't think you should feel obligated to keep the lens if you don't want it.
Crane
Member
Good morning,
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the matter of my disappointment with the 28 'cron.
Sadly, I can't get it to Solms for a check-up. There's likely no need of that, as it seems to focus properly. When I speak of issues of "resolution", I am probably responding to the manner in which the lens draws, and the fact that aspherical designs have an inherently shallower depth of field than pre-asphericals designs. Working wide-open and close up really brings this home, of course. But even stopped-down and using a fast shutter or fast studio flash, the difference in the rendering of fine detail is immediately apparent between my samples of the 28 Summicron and the 28 Elmarit version 4.
I'm not a resolution junky, but sometimes a particularly fine detail really works to bring an image to life, even in the shallow DOF work I produce. I have come to expect this possibility with my Elmarit.
The good news for me is that my dealer indeed offers an exchange policy. If I call him, tomorrow, I can get the 28 'cron restocked in time. I will ask for the 90mm f2 'cron apo asph as a replacement, which was going to be my next purchase from him, anyway. I know that me and the 28 'cron are never going to get along. I have the 35 f2 'cron aspherical, and love it. But the 28 'cron (My sample, at least...) seems such a different beast.
Thanks for putting-up with my bleeting.
Regards,
Crane
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the matter of my disappointment with the 28 'cron.
Sadly, I can't get it to Solms for a check-up. There's likely no need of that, as it seems to focus properly. When I speak of issues of "resolution", I am probably responding to the manner in which the lens draws, and the fact that aspherical designs have an inherently shallower depth of field than pre-asphericals designs. Working wide-open and close up really brings this home, of course. But even stopped-down and using a fast shutter or fast studio flash, the difference in the rendering of fine detail is immediately apparent between my samples of the 28 Summicron and the 28 Elmarit version 4.
I'm not a resolution junky, but sometimes a particularly fine detail really works to bring an image to life, even in the shallow DOF work I produce. I have come to expect this possibility with my Elmarit.
The good news for me is that my dealer indeed offers an exchange policy. If I call him, tomorrow, I can get the 28 'cron restocked in time. I will ask for the 90mm f2 'cron apo asph as a replacement, which was going to be my next purchase from him, anyway. I know that me and the 28 'cron are never going to get along. I have the 35 f2 'cron aspherical, and love it. But the 28 'cron (My sample, at least...) seems such a different beast.
Thanks for putting-up with my bleeting.
Regards,
Crane
kipkeston
Well-known
This is quite interesting. I bought and returned the voigtlander 28/2 after comparing to a 4th version elmarit. I returned it because I didn't know anything about the reputation of the elmarit. I thought the 28/2 was significantly behind the 4th version elmarit and that the elmarit wasn't anything special. After some reading I found that it's quite possibly the best 28 leitz lens out there !
peter_n
Veteran
I too have read of users having mixed experiences with the Leica 28/2. It could be sample variation as Leica QC hasn't been so hot recently. Good to hear you're returning it and better luck with the 90AA!
Beemermark
Veteran
I have the 4th version Elmarit and decided not buying the Summicron after getting some negative feedback and comparing images with a friend who bought one. I also bought the CV 28/1.9 for the extra stop (and it's so cheap). The CV is a good lens but I still prefer the Elmarit.
peter_n
Veteran
I don't use 28mm that much but I have the 28/2.8 Hexanon from Konica. Excellent lens for the price which was I think around $500.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I find the 28/2.0 ASPH is a gem. Quickly becoming my most used lens, and my latest proof prints are simply remarkable for their sparkle, sense of space and legible detail. Miles better for me than the ZM it replaced.
both images: .58 M7 / 28/2.0 ASPH / HP5+ / NDx4 / DD-X
both images: .58 M7 / 28/2.0 ASPH / HP5+ / NDx4 / DD-X
