35mm 2.8 goggled summaron - screw mount?

[yossarian123]

Once again KEH has come through for me, gambled on a $480 UG 2.8 summaron and it's in really fine shape. So I googled the goggled lens serial number and it falls in the range of lenses that can be used on either M or LTM. So a couple of questions:
- how can I tell if mine is a dual mount?
- if it is a dual mount do I also need to remove the goggles to use it on my IIIF? How difficult is that?

 

[splitimageview]

I don't think they made a goggled 35/2.8 in dual mount...only with the M2 version (no goggles.)

Which serial number list did google point you to?

 

[Doug]

Yes, there would be no point in a goggled lens on a non-M camera. Further, removing the goggles causes the lens to focus incorrectly since the RF cam is cut differently -- the goggles are necessary for it to focus correctly.

 

[Shac]

As the other members said, plus serial number lists are not 100% accurate/reliable

 

[yossarian123]

Thanks for the help everyone. Guess I’ll just enjoy this on my M.

 

[Rob-F]

It was advertised as ugly, but is really in fine shape? I've passed up a lens or two when they were described as "UG". Maybe I shouldn't have!

 

[Jul]

- how can I tell if mine is a dual mount?

Does it have a tiny screw at 6 o'clock on the mount?

- if it is a dual mount do I also need to remove the goggles to use it on my IIIF? How difficult is that?

As others said it would not focus with a built-in rangefinder so the IIIF is not your best bet. A "Ic", "If", even older simple screw mount body like a Standard or a late "IC" would fit better than the "IIIF".
The focus scale is the only way to focus as in the days of external rangefinders. To remove the lens from the mount, you have to remove the goggles (two screws) from the mount first otherwise the focus tab block the lens just before the first half turn unscrewing.

 

[raid]

Congratulations on this super buy from KEH.

 

[yossarian123]

Does it have a tiny screw at 6 o'clock on the mount?
As others said it would not focus with a built-in rangefinder so the IIIF is not your best bet. A "Ic", "If", even older simple screw mount body like a Standard or a late "IC" would fit better than the "IIIF".
The focus scale is the only way to focus as in the days of external rangefinders. To remove the lens from the mount, you have to remove the goggles (two screws) from the mount first otherwise the focus tab block the lens just before the first half turn unscrewing.

it actually does have a tiny screw at 6 o clock. But from further reading online it appears that this screw may not be a true indicator of convertibility.

 

[yossarian123]

Congratulations on this super buy from KEH.

Thanks Raid. My incessant lurking on eBay and KEH occasionally pays off.

 

[peterm1]

On a somewhat related note does anyone know if there is a convertible non goggled first version of the M mount 35mm f3.5 (not f3.5 not f2.8)? I have an early M version of the lens and on mine, while there are some screws visible inside the bayonet mount: (a) these come from the inside - i.e. the heads are not visible and look to be aprt of thee structure not a means to take the mount off and (b)they do not look as if they hold the bayonet mount in place - the bayonet ring is concentric with the ring with screws but does not engage with them. I have concluded therefore that mine is not convertible but I suppose its slightly possible there may be some versions which are.
Having said this I certainly know that there IS a late screw mount version which looks physically identical to the M mount one and of course this is convertible to M mount by the conventional means of adding a LTM to M converting ring. This suggests to me that Leica probably never did make a convertible M one as it would be redundant to do so. Both the late LTM and early M ones look like this.........

PS I actually like this lens a lot for its very classic rendering which is very redolent of the 1950s.

 

[Jul]

it actually does have a tiny screw at 6 o clock. But from further reading online it appears that this screw may not be a true indicator of convertibility.

I never read that before. I don't know if apart from the tiny screw presence there is a #serial limit to convertibility but I can tell that two lens, one 1905XXX (M2 version) and one 1814XXX (M3 version) are convertible. In any case, don't pull the screw totally off the mount (it comes fast out, beside tiny, the screw is really short as well) as its size makes it not the easiest to put back in if needed. Help yourself with the rear lens cap to separate the lens from its mount.

I did not mean to sound dismissive about which body would fit best. So long you do not intend to rely on rangefinder to focus it, and if it actually is a convertible lens (I would bet on that), it will fare well on your IIIF.

 

[Jul]

I forgot to add that looking at the rear of the lens gives further hint about convertibility.
Look between the brass focus cam and the M mount where it is cut for rangefinder contact. You should see some of the screw mount if it is present.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I checked my goggled 35mm Summaron f/2.8 and guess what, it has a screw mount (that is, I can remove the bayonet-fitting). Serial number 1808022.

However, what others have said, without the goggles focusing is completely off: if I focus on an object on 90cm the scale is on 65cm.

My other Summaron 35mm f/2.8 (1627820), without goggles, can be used on both LTM and M cameras.

Erik.

 

[splitimageview]

Interesting! But not really usable, except on mirrorless...

Curious as to why they did this, maybe it was because they could reuse existing tooling.

 

[Jul]

except as well in the closed down, pre-focused big depth of focus fashion where exact focus does not matter so much and/or more precisely on every single rangefinderless screw mount body with an external finder and a FOKOS, FONOR, FOFER or whatever tool to meter distance externally.

 

[WJJ3]

I checked my goggled 35mm Summaron f/2.8 and guess what, it has a screw mount (that is, I can remove the bayonet-fitting). Serial number 1808022.

However, what others have said, without the goggles focusing is completely off: if I focus on an object on 90cm the scale is on 65cm.

So you mounted the lens on a screw mount leica and focused the rangefinder on an object 90cm away and the focus scale was at 65cm?

 

[Erik van Straten]

So you mounted the lens on a screw mount leica and focused the rangefinder on an object 90cm away and the focus scale was at 65cm?

Yes, exactly. So the focusing curve - that touches the roller in the camera - is on a goggled lens different from the curve of a non-goggled lens.


Erik.

 

[splitimageview]

except as well in the closed down, pre-focused big depth of focus fashion where exact focus does not matter so much and/or more precisely on every single rangefinderless screw mount body with an external finder and a FOKOS, FONOR, FOFER or whatever tool to meter distance externally.

As I said...not really usable. 😀

 

[WJJ3]

Interesting. So neither the focus scale or the rangefinder allow proper focus? It would be interesting to see how the rear of the lens looks compared to your convertible mount Summaron with the bayonet removed.