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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Han, please repost the samples. They were very nice. I promise not to use the D-word.
Magus, I don't see your upload... 🙁
Magus, I don't see your upload... 🙁
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venchka
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J. Borger said:
The "D" word hasn't been mentioned since early on & not in a Digital vs. Film context. Please show us your examples.
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jaapv
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Magus you are cruel... The glass is three-dimensional in a low-key shot. You've convinced me. 🙁🙁
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telenous
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Excellent thread, very informative and a great read.
I do not have much to add to what has been said earlier especially when it comes to the Cron 35 Asph which I have never used but I will give my version and, near the end, I will make a preliminary suggestion.
About the Cron: Any opinion I have on it is formed on what I have read here and samples from the web. Of course, the problem when researching photos from a particular lens, is that photographers tend to publish their 'better' photos, not the ones where the lens has in some way failed them. Anyway, I think I know what people here mean by the 'clinical' look of the Cron 35 Asph. Suffice it though to say that I have seen some photos by it that bring to the fore everything I love about the asphericals. In particular, breathtaking sharpness within the dark and across the frame; and a type of bokeh that is unique to the asphericals, which I can only describe as 'heating' and liquifying backround light sources (what Magus very aptly calls 'molten' bokeh).
In that respect, I think, the Cron 35 Asph, is the 'most' aspherical of the asphericals, alongside that great beast, the Summilux 50 Asph.
As for the Summilux 35 Asph., I concur that it is the one aspherical lens with the greater fingerprint affinity to older lenses (or so it seems to me anyway). But the wide open sharpness and the typical aspherical bokeh are there - although in milder doses than in the rest of the Aspherical family. Please see thumbnails attached, I think you will see what I mean.
Now to the the suggestion. All discussions about optics culminate with the presentation of a few photos that hopefully back up the relevant points made. As someone who has spent many hours on the web the last few months, researching photos and trying to figure out lens characteristices, I would have appreciated (in fact I would have been indebted to) any site that had a systematic presentation of the specific lens/photos. Some come close to that but the rule is anarchy rather than order. There is one group that has come to my attention when looking for Nikkor lenses which in my opinion manages to bring together the family of Nikkor lenses in a systematic and easy to use way:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikkor/
This flickr group works very well because it accepts only those photos that are tagged by the official group tags. So, if you want to see how the 28mm f/2 AIS lens performs, you just type the relevant tag and all the photos in the group (and in the rest of flickr) come up at once. That makes for very easy viewing and comparison is not such a chore. Photos without the appropriate tags are automatically deleted from the group (there's an ingenious bit of software that takes care of that).
Now, wouldn't it be nice if we had such a group for M-mount lenses? Currently flickr is awash with all sorts of different groups for M-mount lenses but I find it somewhat distracting that photos from all versions of, say, the Summicron 35 all grouped together. I do not mean this in a snobbish/elitist way - far from it. I mean it in the sense that it would be more helpful (to me, perhaps to others too) if there was a way to keep all the different types of lenses separate, so you can study their (very fine) differences and characteristics. In my view the Nikkor group in flickr succeeds in that. And my proposal is that we make a similar group for all M-mount lenses (that would include apart from Leica any Zeiss, Hexanon and other M-mount lens too). That would be a kind of treasury of photo samples for the specific mount.
The administration of such a group will be initially quite hectic as one would have to add a very precise description of the lenses that are acceptable as well as tags for each and every lens type and generation ever produced for M-mount cameras. But with time it will be quite easy to run the group as the software will weed out photos that are not properly tagged.
Preliminary I 'd like to see how members here feel about this idea. After all a group's life and blood are the photos posted and it will be a complete waste of time if someone goes on with it with only very meagre participation. If this group is not a diagreeable prospect perhaps I can contact t a few members here who are steeped into M-mount lens history to ask for their administrative wisdom and go ahead with it. And although I am far from being a lens expert myself I am definitely willing to put the hours and help build this group.
What do you say?
PS Tonight I am travelling abroad so I will be a bit slow in my replies. But please do post what you think.
PS2 As I am writing this I hope I am not violating any of the 'Golden Rules'. I can't seem to be able to access the sticky - are they not available any more? Anyhow, if my suggestion is not acceptable by some RFF rule I will delete the relevant bit of the post.
Best,
I do not have much to add to what has been said earlier especially when it comes to the Cron 35 Asph which I have never used but I will give my version and, near the end, I will make a preliminary suggestion.
About the Cron: Any opinion I have on it is formed on what I have read here and samples from the web. Of course, the problem when researching photos from a particular lens, is that photographers tend to publish their 'better' photos, not the ones where the lens has in some way failed them. Anyway, I think I know what people here mean by the 'clinical' look of the Cron 35 Asph. Suffice it though to say that I have seen some photos by it that bring to the fore everything I love about the asphericals. In particular, breathtaking sharpness within the dark and across the frame; and a type of bokeh that is unique to the asphericals, which I can only describe as 'heating' and liquifying backround light sources (what Magus very aptly calls 'molten' bokeh).
In that respect, I think, the Cron 35 Asph, is the 'most' aspherical of the asphericals, alongside that great beast, the Summilux 50 Asph.
As for the Summilux 35 Asph., I concur that it is the one aspherical lens with the greater fingerprint affinity to older lenses (or so it seems to me anyway). But the wide open sharpness and the typical aspherical bokeh are there - although in milder doses than in the rest of the Aspherical family. Please see thumbnails attached, I think you will see what I mean.
Now to the the suggestion. All discussions about optics culminate with the presentation of a few photos that hopefully back up the relevant points made. As someone who has spent many hours on the web the last few months, researching photos and trying to figure out lens characteristices, I would have appreciated (in fact I would have been indebted to) any site that had a systematic presentation of the specific lens/photos. Some come close to that but the rule is anarchy rather than order. There is one group that has come to my attention when looking for Nikkor lenses which in my opinion manages to bring together the family of Nikkor lenses in a systematic and easy to use way:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nikkor/
This flickr group works very well because it accepts only those photos that are tagged by the official group tags. So, if you want to see how the 28mm f/2 AIS lens performs, you just type the relevant tag and all the photos in the group (and in the rest of flickr) come up at once. That makes for very easy viewing and comparison is not such a chore. Photos without the appropriate tags are automatically deleted from the group (there's an ingenious bit of software that takes care of that).
Now, wouldn't it be nice if we had such a group for M-mount lenses? Currently flickr is awash with all sorts of different groups for M-mount lenses but I find it somewhat distracting that photos from all versions of, say, the Summicron 35 all grouped together. I do not mean this in a snobbish/elitist way - far from it. I mean it in the sense that it would be more helpful (to me, perhaps to others too) if there was a way to keep all the different types of lenses separate, so you can study their (very fine) differences and characteristics. In my view the Nikkor group in flickr succeeds in that. And my proposal is that we make a similar group for all M-mount lenses (that would include apart from Leica any Zeiss, Hexanon and other M-mount lens too). That would be a kind of treasury of photo samples for the specific mount.
The administration of such a group will be initially quite hectic as one would have to add a very precise description of the lenses that are acceptable as well as tags for each and every lens type and generation ever produced for M-mount cameras. But with time it will be quite easy to run the group as the software will weed out photos that are not properly tagged.
Preliminary I 'd like to see how members here feel about this idea. After all a group's life and blood are the photos posted and it will be a complete waste of time if someone goes on with it with only very meagre participation. If this group is not a diagreeable prospect perhaps I can contact t a few members here who are steeped into M-mount lens history to ask for their administrative wisdom and go ahead with it. And although I am far from being a lens expert myself I am definitely willing to put the hours and help build this group.
What do you say?
PS Tonight I am travelling abroad so I will be a bit slow in my replies. But please do post what you think.
PS2 As I am writing this I hope I am not violating any of the 'Golden Rules'. I can't seem to be able to access the sticky - are they not available any more? Anyhow, if my suggestion is not acceptable by some RFF rule I will delete the relevant bit of the post.
Best,
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telenous
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jaapv
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jaapv said:
That goes for you too, Han 😉
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telenous
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Thank you Magus, for all your kind words and encouragement 🙂 . I will PM you further later in the week (can't do now - I am packing my bags as I am writing :bang: ).
Nachkebia
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J. Borger : I love your images, don`t get me wrong, but I am interested in your post, do you do heavy photoshopin on each of them?
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venchka
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You are all cruel! 😉 🙂 😎 I am tettering on the brink of the slippery slope to financial ruin RE: Leica 35mm purchase. I came to this discussion to help me decide on one Leitz 35mm lens. Has this discussion helped? Oh yes. Very much. Indeed. Now I want them all! 😀
I whole heartedly agree that we need a unified, organized database of IMAGES, no discorse, identified by maker, year, model, etc. I have been mentally composing this proposal for the last week or so. My thoughts of late were expressed earlier here far better than I could. Jorge? Joe? Can we devise a way to submit images of the various lenses used here at RFF? The search feature is good. However, wading through a dozen or a hundred threads RE: 50mm DR Summicron is tedious at best and a total waste of time at worst.
Back on topic: Thanks everyone! I am really enjoying this topic. It is beneficial. I am starting to see a conclusion forming in my brain.
I whole heartedly agree that we need a unified, organized database of IMAGES, no discorse, identified by maker, year, model, etc. I have been mentally composing this proposal for the last week or so. My thoughts of late were expressed earlier here far better than I could. Jorge? Joe? Can we devise a way to submit images of the various lenses used here at RFF? The search feature is good. However, wading through a dozen or a hundred threads RE: 50mm DR Summicron is tedious at best and a total waste of time at worst.
Back on topic: Thanks everyone! I am really enjoying this topic. It is beneficial. I am starting to see a conclusion forming in my brain.
Nachkebia
Well-known
Thanks for your answer, from my understanding after all those modifications (curve, shadow and highlight) it should be very hard to understand original lens signiture... anyhow thanks alot for posting, saying again I love your pictures (all of them) if I ever buy digital rangefinder remember it will be your fault 😀
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I have a feeling that we are coming to similar conclusions here, Wayne. This is indeed a very good thread.And yes, the database would be a nice thing to have, but a lot of work to set up.
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