35mm Summicron IV vs. 35mm Summilux Pre-ASPH vs. Zeiss Biogon f2 vs. VC Nokton f1.2

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samoksner

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I'm looking to get a 35mm to complement my 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH, but i am a bit lost in my choices. I can't afford the latest ASPHs, so those are out. I've narrowed my search to the Leica Summicron IV (bokeh king), Leica Summilux Pre-ASPH, the Zeiss Biogon (f 2) and perhaps the VC Nokton f1.2 Aspherical.

I would prefer a f1.4 lens since i love low light, absolute pixel peeping sharpness in not as important as aesthetics, contrast, and overall look. I would have jumped for a VC f1.2 Nokton, except it's quite a large lens, which sorts of defeats the purpose of using an M6 in the first place. If i want "large", i can grab a Nikon FE. I excluded the VC 35mm f1.4 because it has such a dry look, i feel like the images have no heart to them and it does have some rather crazy flare.

The Nokton and the Biogon, i can both get for under $900, the Leicas are around the same price of $1500. Please advice me on which lens is best suited to my shooting. I would love to see comparisons of any of these lens', good reviews with photos or even you're own photos that demonstrate the strength and weakness' of each lens.

Thanks
 
Of all the lenses you mention the 35mm summilux pre-asph is my favourite .... classic old school Leica...
This lens, the summicron IV an the newer summarit 2,5 match well with your 50 summilux pre-asph. The Biogon & summicron Asph have a completely different signature.
So if you like the way your pre-asph lux draws ... choose the type IV or pre-asph lux.
 
They are three very different lenses. Check out the Flickr M-mount group and compare the look of them. Like others have said, the Biogon is a thoroughly modern lens while the Summicron is more classic. The Nokton is a different beast altogether.

I've owned the V4 Summicron and the Biogon. The Summicron is quite a bit smaller than the Biogon, but the square hood narrows the gap. I've handled the Nokton and I remember it being quite large.

IMHO the V4 Summicron is seriously overpriced these days. It's a fine lens, but a Summicron C 40 f/2 is less than 1/3 the price and the look is similar. There's also plenty of anecdotal evidence that the V4 Summicron was not very well built.
 
You can have the VC 35/1.2 plus the VC 35/2.5 for less than the cost of the over-hyped and under-performing version IV Summicron. The little guy is great for walking around, and it draws much like the Aspherical cron; the big guy you can take for "serious" shooting and it's buttery signature.
 
I will be honest, there was something that touched me about the VC 35/2.5 drawing.

Anyway what is this thread about?
 
If you are prepared to spend $1500, I would suggest a v.3 Summicron and the 35/1.2 Nokton. With a bit of patience, you should be able to get the pair for $1500. And together, they would give you the very best of both worlds.

If flare is a concern for you, the v.3 Summicron seems to be more flare resistant than the v.4. You should be able to get a v.3 Summicron for $800-$900.

The 35/1.2 Nokton is certainly bigger than the others. However, it balances very well. For low light shooting, this lens is unrivaled in the 35mm class.



EDIT: Ah, Kevin got in ahead of me with a similar suggestion.
 
if buying Leica, the new Summarit surely deserves a mention as teh tests I have seen suggested it has smoother bokeh than the V4 cron. It is also said to be better made and sitting somewhere between the old and new in terms of look.

For me I will keep using the Biogon but am not sure that it would compliment a pre-asph 50 lux well. The new Summarit 35 might - any used ones about yet?
 
The Zeiss is an awesome lens. I really don't think you can go wrong unless you need something faster.

I saw a 35 Summicron ASPH go for $1300 the other day, so they are totally in reach. While that was cheap, I've seen a lot go for not much more... $1500 or less. So think about it.
 
This question often comes up on the forums with firm favorites in every camp. Personally i prefer the V4 summicron (i had the 1.4 pre ASPH summilux) and i have the 1.2 Nokton but the V4 see's the most use as i like it at F2 and 2.8/4 and it's the most compact and discrete. But the V4 commands a hefty price.
 
I like my Summilux 35 pre-asph. very much ... also its softer look at 1.4/2.0 and the famous glow. At 2.8 it is very sharp and contrasty.
The best choice for me, although I have a 35 Cron IV and Canon 2/35 LTM, too.

B.
 
I recently purchased the pre-asph 35 Summilux and while I am still getting acquainted with it, I liked what I saw from the lens from other users and no longer seek the pre-asph v4 35 Summicron. The pre-asph 35 Summilux is very sharp when stopped down and has a unique character when wide open. I like this combination because it saves me from having to carry an extra lens. Also, even though you don't necessarily need a super fast lens at the 35mm focal length, for my purposes I could use the extra stop because I often shoot my pre-asph 50 Summilux wide open in hand-held situations that call for 1/4 to 1/8 shutter speeds--still possible to do, but why risk motion artifact? I never really considered the slower or sharper 35mm lenses because I did not necessarily want sharpness all the time.

The key thing is the size. While being a fast lens, it is remarkably small. Very useful as an all day carry around lens with wide and narrow depth of field when needed. The pre-asph Summilux is a unique lens and is much maligned, yet it is curious to see that not all that many are available for sale at one time. It is definitely a low production sleeper of a lens and not many people talk about or use it (similar to the pre-asph 90 Summicron), but it's a great one when you "discover" it for yourself.

Regarding flare, I shot about 100 frames with it on my first day, and I only got it to flare once. But I almost anticipated it because there was heavy backlighting and reflections from the sun. I will have to shoot it more extensively at night with point light sources before I comment on its performance under those conditions.

The only issue I see regarding the pre-asph 35 Summilux is the potential compatibility issue with the M8. Apparently the lens shroud that protects the rear element can sometimes prevent it from being mounted on the M8. I believe Rich Cutler recently posted a relatively simple diagram depicting what needs to be modified in order to make the lens mount correctly (something like shaving the bottom part of the shroud down by 1mm in thickness and 7mm across). Some people have removed the shroud entirely. I don't own the M8 so I don't know whether my copy will fit. Apparently the lens shroud was made with slight variances during production, so there is no way to predict which serial numbers were affected. Supposedly the lens shroud can be fixed or modified to fit the M8 if you send the lens back to Leica, but I'm not totally sure on that one.

Depending on the condition of the lens, for around the price of a mint pre-asph v4 35 Summicron, you can get the pre-asph 35 Summilux. I have the 35 Summilux ASPH, which I love, but the pre-asph 35 Summilux (without the hood) only protrudes about half the distance so it is really great as a less obtrusive and easier handling alternative.

Definitely look for examples of pictures shot with the pre-asph 35 Summilux on Flickr or other groups. A fellow RFF member, maddoc (a.k.a. Gabor), uses this lens extensively and extremely effectively.
 
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edhohoho said:
IThe only issue I see regarding the pre-asph 35 Summilux is the potential compatibility issue with the M8. Apparently the lens shroud that protects the rear element can sometimes prevent it from being mounted on the M8. I believe Rich Cutler recently posted a relatively simple diagram depicting what needs to be modified in order to make the lens mount correctly (something like shaving the bottom part of the shroud down by 1mm in thickness and 7mm across).
Click to expand...
Never heard of mounting problems with the M8. Some versions (the older canadian versions, and even not all of them) can't focus at infinity and need adjustment for that though. An adjustment Leica can make as far as i know.
 
If you want to be "shooting with the best" and would like an f/1.4 lens for low light then buy a CV 35/2.5 and then save up as long as it takes for the 35mm Summilux Asph.
 
If you don't have any experience with any of these lenses, then get the 35mm Biogon ZM; no question. You won't complain about the price (all things considered), or the image quality. It has medium contrast according to some, (to me it's more like low-medium contrast).
 
J. Borger said:
Never heard of mounting problems with the M8. Some versions (the older canadian versions, and even not all of them) can't focus at infinity and need adjustment for that though. An adjustment Leica can make as far as i know.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I misread the original thread. The pre-asph 35 Summilux can fit onto the M8, but Apparently the lens shroud prevented accurate focusing to infinity, which required some machining because some lens shrouds were slightly longer than others. See post #17 on LUF:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/13988-how-good-35-1-4-summilux.html

Most of the pre-asph 35 Summilux were Canadian made, except for the later batches (after about 33XXXXX) but certainly not all earlier lenses have this issue.
 
venchka said:
35/2.0 M-Hexanon
vs.
35/2.0 UC-Hexanon
Click to expand...

With prices where they are, might as well get the pre-asph v4 35 Summicron since those are probably easier to find and the 35 UC Hexanon is supposed to be a copy of the v4 anyway. Based on my preferences, I'd be more interested in trying the 35 M Hexanon. But Konica rangefinder glass is definitely good stuff, especially the 50/1.2 and 60/1.2.
 
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Somebody asked about examples of the 35 Summilux 1.4 pre ASPH here's one i shot a few years back in 2005. It's just become a billboard poster campaign for MSF in italy. Shot wide open @1.4 with TX400 scanned on a Nikon Coolscan 5000. As it's just been sent to me i thought i'd share.
 
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Here's two images shot with the 35 V4 summicron both using TX400 scanned on a Nikon Coolscan, certainly the interior image was shot @F2 i think the second one was shot @2.8 but i can't be sure.

48_simon_larbalestier.jpg


39_simon_larbalestier.jpg
 
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