Quinn Porter
Established
A film needs to be shot at the appropriate speed for development in Diafine. The Diafine packaging indicates that Tri-X should be shot at 1600, though many shoot it at 1250 or 1000 since Diafine does a good job of highlight preservation.
I think Diafine is a very easy way to get good results from Tri-X at 1600. No doubt other developers give you more control, but Diafine is almost idiot proof.
Finally, remember that Diafine doesn't demand critical temperature control. It's great in the summer when your chemicals might be 78/25 degrees at room temp.
vieri
Leica Ambassador
Actually, technically Diafine is not a pushing developer per se, it is a compensating developer; to understand what it does, keep in mind that what we use to call a film's speed is indeed the manufacturer's "box speed" only, meaning the speed the manufacturer rates the film using a given developer in a given way. Diafine works like this: solution A impregnates the emulsion, of course differently according to each film area's exposure; so, it gets in as much solution A as possible for all the negative's area; then you pour in solution B, which activates solution A and development starts to happen and keep going to completion. For each solution, the time for this to happen is between 3-5 minutes according to the different films and emulsions. Leaving a solution for more time than what in needed to impregnate the emulsion, of course, doesn't have any effect (once the emulsion is saturated it cannot get in any more solution, evidently). This way, all areas of the film gets developed to the max of their possibilities, so to speak, but at the same time you don't get overdevelopment in the highlights if you want to bring up the shadows or underdevelopment in the shadows if you want to keep highlights under control as you would using a non-compensating developer. The reason why with Diafine you get normally a higher film speed than what the manufacturer states, is because when a manufacturer rates a film he does it using a combination of developer/times/temperature that would keep everything in an acceptable medium, so to speak. Diafine gets around this, and gives you more speed without loosing control on highlights and shadows - this, in turn, brings to what people refers to as "flat negatives": because of its nature Diafine in fact lessen the contrast between highlights and shadows developing the former less and the latter more. This can be good for scanning, good for high contrast scenes, but not necessarily of everyone's taste.
I hope this is understandable at all and that it helps a little
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
So does that mean that if you put a roll of 100 or 400 in, you can't shoot it at 100 or 400?
vieri
Leica Ambassador
Basically, no, you can't. Most films get between 1-2 stops in Diafine. Check the massive development chart for more info, select Diafine from the developers drop down menu and there you go
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
yes.
you should really run a bracketed test roll though, diafine works really well with tri-x from around 500 through 3200 depending upon the look you want...
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
OK, so what would happen if you shot a roll at its marked speed?
vieri
Leica Ambassador
You'd rather develop it in something else than Diafine, I guess
I never tried, but I think you'll get very overexposed negatives border to unusable; maybe someone who tried can chime in with more precise information.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
Tri-X pushed to 1600. The only thing I'd use is Microphen. Use it straight (undiluted), 13 minutes at 70 degrees F, easy on the agitation (first 30 seconds, then 3 inversions each minute). Looks really nice, with excellent shadow detail. I don't use anything else.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Can someone explain to me why they want to push film? I don't see the benefit of pushing to EI 1400-1600 while shooting daylight. You just loses so much. Now if you are continually shooting in 'available darkness' as Roger Hicks says, fine, but for daylight I don't get it.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
I'm only interested for low light situations John. I guess others might like to push film for a certain look.
photophorous
Registered User
I think it's just aesthetics...or lazy zone system if for shooting in dull lighting.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Wow. Drew stole my development method!
A more accurate way of describing Diafine and TXT's speed relationship is that every film has unique speed for a developer at a certain dilution for a certain person, even. Speed is defined by shadow detail.
Now, the reason why Diafine is so strange is that it gives you a speed waaaaay more than more developers.
With, say, Rodinal 1+50, I get 250 out of TXT. That's my results. With D76, I get 320. With Microphen, I usually shoot at 400 but in reality it's about 560. Those are the speeds I get with different developers. And those are the "true" speeds, per my methods and tastes, even.
Diafine gets you a "true" speed of just about 1250. 1600 is actually a bit underexposed. But TXT in Diafine gives you a massive speed increase. In fact, it was basically designed to do this just for TXT in particular. You get benefits from other fiim stock, too, but it's designed for TXT. You don't get 2 stops with every film.
A more accurate way of describing Diafine and TXT's speed relationship is that every film has unique speed for a developer at a certain dilution for a certain person, even. Speed is defined by shadow detail.
Now, the reason why Diafine is so strange is that it gives you a speed waaaaay more than more developers.
With, say, Rodinal 1+50, I get 250 out of TXT. That's my results. With D76, I get 320. With Microphen, I usually shoot at 400 but in reality it's about 560. Those are the speeds I get with different developers. And those are the "true" speeds, per my methods and tastes, even.
Diafine gets you a "true" speed of just about 1250. 1600 is actually a bit underexposed. But TXT in Diafine gives you a massive speed increase. In fact, it was basically designed to do this just for TXT in particular. You get benefits from other fiim stock, too, but it's designed for TXT. You don't get 2 stops with every film.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Very good mini-essay, Kaiyen, I like it when you jump into these subjects. As to a certain look or aesthetics, why not just block out the shadows in PhotoShop or by using a high contrast printing paper (daylight work). Then you still have a decent negative, if ever your aesthetics or your certain look changes. If you can get a true speed of 1250 with Diafine, that's great, if it is not pushing, but just for daylight work, well I guess I still think pushing has a limited use. Maybe I need to stay up later.
photophorous
Registered User
I don't know if you saw my shots above, which were obviously taken in bright light, but the reason those were taken with TriX at 1250 is because that's what was in my camera at the time. I shot most of that roll indoors in low light, but these high contrast outdoor shots were the only ones that I found pleasing at all. The indoor low contrast shots came out way too flat, and thus I didn't bother spotting out the dust to post them online. Because I find this combo works best for high contrast scenes like these, I don't use it anymore. I'd rather shoot TriX at 250-320 and cut back development in D76. However, I might consider giving Diafine another try for something like concert photography. Just my opinion, of course.
Paul
3js
Established
Hmm, daylight can be very dim in the northern hemisphere. Half of the year light levels are so low that even a 1600 can´t quite make it. You have to visit artic circle in winter time to understand the problem.
My solution have been T-Max 400 pushed to 1600 with T-Max dev. Very grainless even at 1600. 3 to 4 minutes more time than normal will do the trick.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
It's also worth getting clear in your mind the difference between EI (exposure index) and ISO speed (fixed standards for shadow detail and contrast).
No ISO 400 film will give a true ISO 1600 in any developer (less shadow detail or more contrast or both): ISO 800 is a realistic limit. But you may get successful pictures you like (depending on your equipment, technique and subject matter) at much higher EIs.
Be slightly wary of Diafine advocates. It works very well for some. Others find it compresses the mid-tones too much for their subjects. The only way to see if it suits you is to try it. Personally I prefer Ilford DD-X for pushing, and that's after several years using 2-bath developers in the past. I'm not saying that I'm right and that Diafine users are wrong; merely that Diafine doesn't suit everyone (subjective), and that it doesn't deliver a true ISO over about 650 or maybe 800 (sensitometrically verifiable).
Cheers,
Roger
No ISO 400 film will give a true ISO 1600 in any developer (less shadow detail or more contrast or both): ISO 800 is a realistic limit. But you may get successful pictures you like (depending on your equipment, technique and subject matter) at much higher EIs.
Be slightly wary of Diafine advocates. It works very well for some. Others find it compresses the mid-tones too much for their subjects. The only way to see if it suits you is to try it. Personally I prefer Ilford DD-X for pushing, and that's after several years using 2-bath developers in the past. I'm not saying that I'm right and that Diafine users are wrong; merely that Diafine doesn't suit everyone (subjective), and that it doesn't deliver a true ISO over about 650 or maybe 800 (sensitometrically verifiable).
Cheers,
Roger
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Roger - do you think it's the compression of midtones and highlights that gives the sense of Diafine providing an effective EI of about 1250, as I've often seen cited? I don't like the tonality at all (subjective), but I can't deny that it compresses the heck out of highlights even in contrasty situations.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'd be certain of it -- and I don't care for the tonality either, for the subjects I shoot. But as I say, it works beautifully for some people and some subjects, with a high effective EI.
Cheers,
Roger
lZr
L&M
I shoot TriX in Diafine at 400, 800, 1000, 1600, same roll. Some postprocessing is a must, but I love this combo