400TX in HC-110 looks pale

[David William White]

And regarding the other "what?"
How do you quickly see if your development went well? (without a densitometer, please)?

I just proof the roll on a contact sheet and see what the frames look like, not the tail. I'd just never heard of this before & was curious.

 

[Teus]

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Note about Kodak Tri-X Pan and Plus-X Pan: Kodak's published time for the new 400TX film in dilution B is 3 3/4 minutes at 68 F. That is too short to be practical, and I think they have made a serious mistake; it looks to me like the time for dilution A. I think they used the wrong dilution in their testing for both 400TX and 125PX.
Numerous photographers tell me that the correct time for 400TX is only a few percent shorter than for the old TX. Even Kodak told me the same thing – though they insist that they didn't mix up the dilutions.
However, it's generally agreed that Kodak's published time of 7.5 minutes for TX in dilution B was a bit long. Most photographers recommend about 6 to 7 minutes.
I want to thank Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki (retired from Kodak, part of the team that invented Xtol) for correspondence about this. They, too, think the wrong dilution was used in Kodak's tests. It will be interesting to see if the published time changes in future Kodak publications.

HC110 never looked dull here. it might be too contrasty at lower dilutions.
double-check the dilution, american and euro soup have different concentrations. please post us some sample photos, including information about the lens, weather and time of shooting.

 

[Trius]

OK, the "under-developed" chorus is bit too loud/easy. We haven't SEEN negs/results, so how do we know exposure/EI isn't at issue? Yes I know the lab results were OK, but that could be coincidence. My past experience with TX and HC-110 is that an EI of 250-320 is more realistic.

So, what is the shadow detail like on the thin negs? Without getting into densitometry or Zone system, shadow detail is the first place to evaluate. With underexposure, all the agitation and extended agitation in the world won't give you a proper neg.

 

[charjohncarter]

from Trius: So, what is the shadow detail like on the thin negs?

That is the question, and the most important point here.

Also from Trius: (S)hadow detail is the first place to evaluate.

 

[maddoc]

As Trius said ... Tri-X in HC-110 (either "B" or 1+49, American syrup) works best for me at E.I.320. My standard agitation is continous for the first 30 sec and then one inversion per minute. Using dil "B" 6 minutes work well, with 1+49, I develop around 8 minutes.

Very important with HC-110 (as with Rodinal) is the temperature. I found these developers being more critical than D-76 or XTOL.

Cheers,

Gabor

 

[dfoo]

I don't think less than 1/2 a stop will make such a big difference (that is between very thin, and nice an thick).

 

[DGA]

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/
HC110 never looked dull here. it might be too contrasty at lower dilutions.
double-check the dilution, american and euro soup have different concentrations. please post us some sample photos, including information about the lens, weather and time of shooting.

Oh, I know this one by heart (I still have it printed by my bed, I think)
As I said, I soup it for 6.5 minutes, not what Kodak wrote.

Today I'm getting into a long darkroom session and I will print many frames of these palish negs.

 

[Teus]

Oh, I know this one by heart (I still have it printed by my bed, I think)
As I said, I soup it for 6.5 minutes, not what Kodak wrote.

oh, okay. what are the results of overexposing the film 1, 2 or 3 stops?
your developer might have died. see if you can borrow another bottle of HC110.

 

[John Bragg]

Hi DGA.
I have used HC-110 for years wiyh Tri-X and the only failure I had was with the less concentrated European version. Exactly as you describe, pale and thin negatives. I switched to the 1 Litre bottle of thick syrup (US version) measured one shot with a syringe, and have had no further issues. Problem solved. I now use Rodinal most of the time but my HC-110 concentrate is still good, having divided the original into 4 smaller bottles.

John.

 

[DGA]

Hi DGA.
I have used HC-110 for years wiyh Tri-X and the only failure I had was with the less concentrated European version. Exactly as you describe, pale and thin negatives. I switched to the 1 Litre bottle of thick syrup (US version) measured one shot with a syringe, and have had no further issues. Problem solved. I now use Rodinal most of the time but my HC-110 concentrate is still good, having divided the original into 4 smaller bottles.

John.

Did you make the right mixture (1+9 for B, instead of 1+31 in the US version)? I've heard of someone who used the Euro version without knowing that and didn't understand why his negs came out very under-developed. 😉
Unfortunately, I can only get the European version. 🙁

But, I saw Ilfotec-HC on the shelf.
It should be, more or less, the same developer as the US version, isn't it?

 

[John Bragg]

Hi DGA.

Yes I made it up as per normal 1:9 and it was bad dev. It was in a newer style round bottle instead of the original square bottle and the lid seemed to make a less than perfect seal from my recollections. Could be the packaging letting the product down. Ilfotec HC is supposed to be very similar to the concentrated version as is Tetenal Neopress..

John.

 

[Chris101]

You are right, EURO HC-110 dilution B is 1:9 instead of 1:31 in the original (American) version. Still, it is the same chemical.

Chris, do you soup 400TX with it?

Yes. I develop nearly everything in HC110.And 60% of my filmwork is trix 400. Occasionally I use coffee, or Sprint developer when it is available for free. I used to use D76. But Now I just use HC110, and mostly dilution B. I use dilution H if I am pulling and cannot get the temperature low enough to prolong the development.

 

[delft]

Another 2 eurocents:
When I scanned my negatives, I found a generous 6 minutes at dil B with 5 seconds agitation every 30 seconds ( 20 Celsius) gave the best results for me. Now that I'm wet-printing, I will have to develop longer (still working on that), my negs are too soft.
From the unofficial hc110 page ( http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ ) :

*Be sure to use at least 19.2 mL of European concentrate per 135-36 or 120 roll of film, even if this requires you to put more than the usual amount of liquid in the tank.

Also: Maybe the euro concentrate ages faster than the stronger syrup. Is your concentrate fresh-ish?

Greetings,
Dirk

 

[DGA]

Is your concentrate fresh-ish?

I don't really know, I open a new 500ml bottle every 2-3 months and try to keep it in an oxygen and lights free environment while used.

 

[DGA]

OK, some news.
It is me to blame, not the HC-110. :bang:

After a full day of printing in the dark-room, I came to a conclusion that I am simply an under-exposer man.
I constantly under-expose most of my frames.
Printing good exposed frames resulted with excellent tonality and contrast.

Now to the hard part, stopping this bad habit 😉

 

[40oz]

OK, some news.
It is me to blame, not the HC-110. :bang:

After a full day of printing in the dark-room, I came to a conclusion that I am simply an under-exposer man.
I constantly under-expose most of my frames.
Printing good exposed frames resulted with excellent tonality and contrast.

Now to the hard part, stopping this bad habit 😉

I have the same problem. I'm dealing with it by making my decision, then giving one more stop to the shot. I actually look forward to over-exposed shots now, because that means I'm getting better at it 🙂

One thing I really like about developing my own film is learning how to match exposure to development.

 

[TheHub]

I love Tri-X 400 in HC-110. I use dil B and with vigorous agitation I get some pretty good grain:

With regular agitation, I get less grain:

I've been told that agitation has nothing to with grain, but in my experience it has. I guess Your Mileage May Vary.

 

[John Bragg]

OK, some news.
It is me to blame, not the HC-110. :bang:

After a full day of printing in the dark-room, I came to a conclusion that I am simply an under-exposer man.
I constantly under-expose most of my frames.
Printing good exposed frames resulted with excellent tonality and contrast.

Now to the hard part, stopping this bad habit 😉

Sounds like you need to do some testing to establish your personal exposure index with Tri-X in HC-110. The film speed printed on the box is merely a guide and starting point. Many photographers, myself included, find that results are improved with a little more exposure. I rate my Tri-X at Ei 200 and that is the correct film speed setting for my equipment and technique. If you expose a roll under controlled conditions and shoot some frames of each subject at a range of asa settings from 100 to 400 and all settings in between, somewhere in this range will lie your ideal setting for producing good negatives with a full range of tones including shadow details. Once this is established then the whites can be fine tuned by adjusting development times. You will likely find that more exposure and the same or slightly less development is the key to getting Tri-X to work for you.

John.

 

[charjohncarter]

Sounds like you need to do some testing to establish your personal exposure index with Tri-X in HC-110. The film speed printed on the box is merely a guide and starting point. Many photographers, myself included, find that results are improved with a little more exposure. I rate my Tri-X at Ei 200 and that is the correct film speed setting for my equipment and technique. If you expose a roll under controlled conditions and shoot some frames of each subject at a range of asa settings from 100 to 400 and all settings in between, somewhere in this range will lie your ideal setting for producing good negatives with a full range of tones including shadow details. Once this is established then the whites can be fine tuned by adjusting development times. You will likely find that more exposure and the same or slightly less development is the key to getting Tri-X to work for you.

John.

Hi John, that is excellent advice. TriX is the same as any film. To get it right, you have to test. So just don't think that TriX is the only film that you have to personally tweak.

 

[John Bragg]

Thanks. It took me a while to dial in the newer version of Tri-X and Neopan 400 took a few goes too. However this getting to know period is time well spent. It is part of the magic of BW developing that there are many roads to the final goal. I like to think that finding your own personal developing technique is a huge element in finding your own "STYLE". It can make your photos truely individual.