40mm Rokkor/Summicron question

[jaapv]

It is theoretically true, but the heart of the matter is that
Leica played up this aspect to prevent the lens eating into the sales of the Summicron 35. In reality these lenses focus just fine.

Anyone have any experience with the differing focus cams on the CL (steeper version) and the CLE (M spec version)? I've read in some places that it "could" be an issue, but I've never found any evidence, or anyone claiming their version never worked properly. Seems like a case of someone saying something online and everyone quoting it as gospel.

Also, they should all be optically identical, the only difference being the Summicron and CL version are single-coated, and the CLE is rumored to be multicoated, though some have disputed that, and claim there may be some multicoated 'crons or CL versions out there.

I just purchased a CL version one a couple of weeks back and am waiting on its arrival from Singapore, so all the stuff above is what I've seemed to put together from all my pre-purchase research.

 

[maddoc]

In reality these lenses focus just fine.

... which does not fit my practical (real) experience with this lens. 😉

 

[GaryLH]

From 10 ft and under, I do notice a slight focus shift w/ the cv 40 f1.4 that clear up by 2.8. Could just my copy.

Gary

 

[jaapv]

Just to be clear: Focus shift is the plane of focus moving when the aperture of the lens is changed without adjusting focus. It has nothing to do with front or back focus through miscalibration.

 

[jaapv]

... which does not fit my practical (real) experience with this lens. 😉

I should have said 90%. Have it calibrated.

 

[Godfrey]

Thanks Godfrey.
No focus shift with the 40mm 1.4... That's enticing. The shift on my old VC 35 1.4 and some reports of shift on the net on the 40 are the reasons I didn't consider this lens. I used to have a 40 when I was shooting an M6- loved the ability to use that 1.4 if necessary.

Since there are some here who seem to be hair-splitters ready for debate, I said "I've never seen much focus shift on these lenses."

I'm sure there is some. I'm actually sure there is some with the vast majority of lenses I've owned. I've just never found it to be particularly egregious or that it got in my way of using the lenses. Even at f/1.4 ...

When critical focus and framing is essential, a TTL camera (SLR or electronic) is a better choice than any rangefinder camera. That's why I still have one of each of those in my cabinet. That said, however, I get my best photographs with these imprecise Leica Ms and 6x6 folders.

I think that if photographers spent half as much energy trying to acquire quality images rather than debating equipment-based image quality, we'd all be a lot better off. ;-)

 

[jaapv]

When critical focus [....] is essential, a TTL camera (SLR or electronic) is a better choice than any rangefinder camera.)

Not really - unless you focus stopped down the focus shift will behave the same.😉

 

[Godfrey]

Not really - unless you focus stopped down the focus shift will behave the same.😉

Did I say something about hair-splitting? ... ;-)

FYI:
- When I'm using my TTL electronic camera, I'm *always* focusing and framing at the stopped down aperture (GXR using M-mount lenses and adapted SLR lenses) so there is no focus shift.

- When I'm doing critical focusing work with my SLRs (Nikon F, Olympus E-1), I check focus with the lens fully stopped down. (I mostly use the E-1 with Nikkor macro lenses, so I'm almost always stopped down with it anyway.)

So I do agree with you, but it was completely unnecessary to point it out as you did.

 

[jaapv]

That is indeed the way - but I doubt many use it - especially on SLRs.

 

[jky]

Since there are some here who seem to be hair-splitters ready for debate, I said "I've never seen much focus shift on these lenses."

I'm sure there is some. I'm actually sure there is some with the vast majority of lenses I've owned. I've just never found it to be particularly egregious or that it got in my way of using the lenses. Even at f/1.4 ...

When critical focus and framing is essential, a TTL camera (SLR or electronic) is a better choice than any rangefinder camera. That's why I still have one of each of those in my cabinet. That said, however, I get my best photographs with these imprecise Leica Ms and 6x6 folders.

I think that if photographers spent half as much energy trying to acquire quality images rather than debating equipment-based image quality, we'd all be a lot better off. ;-)

Perhaps I just had a bad 35... If I recall (vaguely), @ f4 it focused approximately 6-7" in front of the focus point (subject at 7 or 8 feet).

 

[Spicy]

Alright, so mine arrived in the mail a few days ago and I went and got the first roll dev'd/scanned. The scans look good, but I've got another problem.

The RF in the finder window won't go to infinity, even though pictures of buildings that are 1/2mi+ far away are in focus just fine. The lens stops perfectly when the little triangle is at the infinity mark, but if I'm looking through the finder window, the RF alignment isn't perfectly aligned. In fact, it's not even really close. Things that are about 25ft/8m or so away are the maximum distance at which the RF images coincide. Anything further than that and the images won't line up. Just doing a rough estimate, the distance scales on the lens barrel seem to line up with the focusing (ie: if I focus on something about 3.5ft away, the RF image coincides and the lens barrel says 3.5ft; 20ft and it works fine as well)

I haven't yet dev'd the B&W roll that I was testing close focus wide open, but off the first roll, everything seems to be in focus.

In short, the barrel markings seem to be correct, the RF focusing seems to work correctly up until about 25ft/10m (the final markings on the lens barrel before inf), and all of my pictures came out in correct focus.

 

[Godfrey]

Alright, so mine arrived in the mail a few days ago and I went and got the first roll dev'd/scanned. The scans look good, but I've got another problem.

The RF in the finder window won't go to infinity, even though pictures of buildings that are 1/2mi+ far away are in focus just fine. The lens stops perfectly when the little triangle is at the infinity mark, but if I'm looking through the finder window, the RF alignment isn't perfectly aligned. In fact, it's not even really close. Things that are about 25ft/8m or so away are the maximum distance at which the RF images coincide. Anything further than that and the images won't line up. Just doing a rough estimate, the distance scales on the lens barrel seem to line up with the focusing (ie: if I focus on something about 3.5ft away, the RF image coincides and the lens barrel says 3.5ft; 20ft and it works fine as well)

I haven't yet dev'd the B&W roll that I was testing close focus wide open, but off the first roll, everything seems to be in focus.

In short, the barrel markings seem to be correct, the RF focusing seems to work correctly up until about 25ft/10m (the final markings on the lens barrel before inf), and all of my pictures came out in correct focus.

That sounds like the rangefinder was in my M4-2 body when I first got it. It needed a cleaning, re-collimation for vertical alignment, and re-calibration. Had that done ($120 at the local camera tech) and it's perfect now. Nothing wrong with any of the lenses I fitted to it...
🙂

Godfrey

 

[Spicy]

I CLA'd it with Youxin 12 months ago when I purchased it from him. I've had no issues with any of the lenses I've mounted on it (a variety of M mount and adapted Canon and Russian LTM glass).

The weird thing is that focus seems to be working just fine, just that it ends early. I wonder if this is the oft-cited steeper focusing cam on CL difficulty. My M seems to have the focusing cam in the center, though... If the lens was adjusted, perhaps that would fix it, but the difficulty doesn't seem to be inaccurate focusing, only inaccurate representation of it in the RF window, but only with this lens...

 

[IEDEI]

I CLA'd it with Youxin 12 months ago when I purchased it from him. I've had no issues with any of the lenses I've mounted on it (a variety of M mount and adapted Canon and Russian LTM glass).

The weird thing is that focus seems to be working just fine, just that it ends early. I wonder if this is the oft-cited steeper focusing cam on CL difficulty. My M seems to have the focusing cam in the center, though... If the lens was adjusted, perhaps that would fix it, but the difficulty doesn't seem to be inaccurate focusing, only inaccurate representation of it in the RF window, but only with this lens...

i have the exact same issue...ONLY on infinity focus though. just like you said, the focus itself is perfect, but on infinity focus it seems off in the RF...not a big deal, really.