4x5 Development Issues

[selahsean]

I tried film development for the first time last night. I successfully developed two rolls of HP5+ 35mm using Cinestill Monobath and my lab-box. I then attempted to use the same monobath to develop 4 sheets of Fomapan 200 in 4x5 using a Patterson w/ the MOD 54. I added some development time onto the total (because the monobath had been used on two rolls). I ended up developing the sheets for 7 1/2 minutes at 70 degrees with moderate agitation. Unfortunately the sheets came out black with no edge markings. Also the monobath turned a greenish/bluish color after I emptied the tank.

So a couple questions:

1.) Completely black negatives with no edge markings leads me to believe I over developed the film. Am I getting that correct?

2.) The monobath can be re-used, but now it's really colored. Should I re-use it or is better to dispose of it? My limited reading suggests developers changing color is normal but can be avoided by pre-washing. Maybe the difference between HP5+ and Fomapan but the monobath didn't change colors dramatically after I developed the HP5.

Thanks in advance

 

[retinax]

"Completely black negatives with no edge markings" sounds like your film was exposed to room light at some point..

 

[kangaroo2012]

1. Black negs with no edge indicates the whole sheet of film is fogged. Did you load the film in total darkness? Is the lab box completely light tight?
2. The greenish blue colour is the anti halation dye and will not hurt the film. It can be removed with a pre wash in water before development. Some 120 films and 4x5 films have more anti halation dye than 35mm films.
How was the density in the 35mm film?

 

[Timmyjoe]

I've got the Patterson/Mod54 set up and just used it to process some 4x5 Tri-X 320. As mentioned above, by pre-washing the film in clear water first you can remove the anti-halation backing. I load the film, fill the tank with 68ºF clear water, agitate and tap to remove bubbles. Let it sit 2 minutes, swirl and dump, then repeat. After that, I just process as normal. Also remember, with the Patterson/Mod54 you need 1000ml of solution.

Also agree with above, if the negatives come out completely black, they were completely exposed to light.

Best,
-Tim

 

[selahsean]

1. Black negs with no edge indicates the whole sheet of film is fogged. Did you load the film in total darkness? Is the lab box completely light tight?
2. The greenish blue colour is the anti halation dye and will not hurt the film. It can be removed with a pre wash in water before development. Some 120 films and 4x5 films have more anti halation dye than 35mm films.
How was the density in the 35mm film?

1.) Loaded the 4x5 in a darkroom with a safelight. Loaded the film on the MOD 54 then put it in the patterson tank and closed the funnel on top. At that point I figured the film was safe from exposure so with the lights on I loaded in the monobath and developed.

2.) Ok so probably ok to reuse the monobath then. The 35mm development was near perfect really good negatives on both rolls.

 

[selahsean]

I've got the Patterson/Mod54 set up and just used it to process some 4x5 Tri-X 320. As mentioned above, by pre-washing the film in clear water first you can remove the anti-halation backing. I load the film, fill the tank with 68ºF clear water, agitate and tap to remove bubbles. Let it sit 2 minutes, swirl and dump, then repeat. After that, I just process as normal. Also remember, with the Patterson/Mod54 you need 1000ml of solution.

Also agree with above, if the negatives come out completely black, they were completely exposed to light.

Best,
-Tim

Hmm guess I need to figure out if it was maybe something that happened in camera/loading or if it was something in the development process then. Since you use the MOD 54 is it safe to pre-wash/load developer with the lights on? Maybe that's where I went wrong?

 

[randy stewart]

df96 problem?

df96 problem?

If you meant by saying that you loaded the sheet film in your "darkroom with a safelight" that the safelight was ON at the time, then the safelight fogged your film at that point.

While there are very dark green safelight filters which used to be used to develop sheet film in trays by inspecting the development as it progressed, I doubt that's the safelight you meant.

If you loaded in the darkroom with the safelight off, it still looks like the film got light fogged before development.

 

[newsgrunt]

unless it's x-ray film, film should be loaded into holders, and into tank, in total darkness.

 

[selahsean]

If you meant by saying that you loaded the sheet film in your "darkroom with a safelight" that the safelight was ON at the time, then the safelight fogged your film at that point.

While there are very dark green safelight filters which used to be used to develop sheet film in trays by inspecting the development as it progressed, I doubt that's the safelight you meant.

If you loaded in the darkroom with the safelight off, it still looks like the film got light fogged before development.

OK! learning something new then. Guess I probably shouldn't have used the safelight to load the film in the holders either...With that being the case is the red safelight only for post development? I obviously got it wrong so I'm trying to figure when the safelight should be used.

 

[Steve M.]

You cannot load film with a safelight on. It has to be total, total darkness, or nothing, which is what one gets when light hits the film, and it doesn't have to be but a tiny bit.

 

[selahsean]

unless it's x-ray film, film should be loaded into holders, and into tank, in total darkness.

Well that was an slightly expensive way to learn that! :bang:

 

[selahsean]

Thanks everyone for the help! Much appreciated now to learn how to do all this in the dark!

 

[retinax]

The red safe lights are for handling black and white photo paper, and orthochromatic films, those aren't your normal black and white films nowadays. If your film was safe to use in red safe light, it would record red as black.

 

[selahsean]

The red safe lights are for handling black and white photo paper, and orthochromatic films, those aren't your normal black and white films nowadays. If your film was safe to use in red safe light, it would record red as black.

TIL: Film safelights are not safe for film 😀

 

[Timmyjoe]

Hmm guess I need to figure out if it was maybe something that happened in camera/loading or if it was something in the development process then. Since you use the MOD 54 is it safe to pre-wash/load developer with the lights on? Maybe that's where I went wrong?

As long as you are loading your 4x5 into the Mod54 rack, putting the rack onto the center hollow Patterson column, placing the Mod54/Film/Center Column into the Patterson tank, and putting the Patterson funnel into the tank and snapping it into position, all in total darkness, you should be fine.

Once the Mod54 with film, is slid over the center column, placed into the tank, and the funnel is placed into the tank and twisted until it clicks/locks, after that, the Patterson Tank/Mod54 combo is light tight. The rest of the processing can be done in daylight. If you leave out the center column, or forget to lock the funnel into place, then light can leak into the tank.

But once it's all put together properly, it is light tight, and pouring in the clear water to remove the anti-halation backing, pouring in the developer, pouring in the stop bath, and then the fixer, can all be done with the lights on.

One other thing to remember about the Patterson/Mod54 combo, you must agitate gently, or else you can dislodge the 4x5 film sheets from the Mod54.

Hope that helps.

Best,
-Tim

 

[selahsean]

As long as you are loading your 4x5 into the Mod54 rack, putting the rack onto the center hollow Patterson column, placing the Mod54/Film/Center Column into the Patterson tank, and putting the Patterson funnel into the tank and snapping it into position, all in total darkness, you should be fine.

Once the Mod54 with film, is slid over the center column, placed into the tank, and the funnel is placed into the tank and twisted until it clicks/locks, after that, the Patterson Tank/Mod54 combo is light tight. The rest of the processing can be done in daylight. If you leave out the center column, or forget to lock the funnel into place, then light can leak into the tank.

But once it's all put together properly, it is light tight, and pouring in the clear water to remove the anti-halation backing, pouring in the developer, pouring in the stop bath, and then the fixer, can all be done with the lights on.

One other thing to remember about the Patterson/Mod54 combo, you must agitate gently, or else you can dislodge the 4x5 film sheets from the Mod54.

Hope that helps.

Best,
-Tim

It does thanks a ton!