Other/Uncategorized 5 lens CZJ LTM set on eBay- wow!

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dexdog

dexdog

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British seller, auction 200583817092. I have checked the serial numbers in Thiele's reference.

2.8cm/8, made Oct 1940, Contax mount
3.5 cm/2.8, numbers missing in book
5cm/1.5, made Jan 1943, Contax mount, aperture ring has 'ears'
8.5cm/2, made Oct 1944, Arriflex mount
13.5cm/4, made Jan 1943, Contax mount

Impressive set, a couple of the mounts are odd looking (post-war conversions?), but interesting none the less. No collapsible 5cm/2, though. The listing as Contax mount really don't bother me much, given that a lot of genuine WW2-era LTM lenses appear to have started life in a different mount.

I imagine that the seller will get lots of offers to close the bidding early, but I hope he/she sticks it out. I may have to bid on this... 😀
 
I have not decided if I will bid yet- these are going to sell for a fair amount of money. Let's see, retirement savings, or lenses; retirement savings or lenses...
 
The 50mm is already in my registry, it was sold over ebay some time ago.............that f4/135 T looks interesting, that's one of the only WW2 Sonnar's in LTM Leica Thread Mount I'm still looking for.

Tom
 
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Watching as this auction goes on..............I might break in and bid at the last min, but I'm also working on possibly adding another IIIC K shortly to my research collection soon, so gotta save the $$$$$!

Tom
 
I am not very comfortable with private listings, given that they are susceptable to shill bids. However, the seller has 100% favorable feedback, and all feedback as buyer and seller is visible.
 
dexdog said:
I am not very comfortable with private listings, given that they are susceptable to shill bids. However, the seller has 100% favorable feedback, and all feedback as buyer and seller is visible.
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I'm waiting on detailed photographs of all the lenses.....if they are serious about it and really have the kit, then they will send photographs and not consider it a hassle, if I don't get any fresh photos thats a warning flag.

Tom
 
The detailed photos would be nice. From what they already hae posted, it looks like the Biogon, 2.8 tessar and 8.5 cm sonnar have been re-barreled. Can't really say about the 5cm and 13.5 sonnars, though
 
dexdog said:
The detailed photos would be nice. From what they already hae posted, it looks like the Biogon, 2.8 tessar and 8.5 cm sonnar have been re-barreled. Can't really say about the 5cm and 13.5 sonnars, though
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Yeh, if I hear or get anything from them I will let you know........I did notice the odd looking focus ring around the f2.8/35 Biogon as well? (it seems that the Biogon lens got alot of crazy mods during and after WW2 - you remember my US Forces mod done up in Feet - well I guess I'm used to just seeing that one and the few I've seen here at RFF) - the 1943 #272xxxx serial number is very interesting too, first LTM Biogon I have ever seen in that serial series and have recorded thus far

The 50 and the 135 look pretty much in the norm to me - Johan has a 135 maybe he should take a look at this one compared to his?

I have the 50 registered, so it was sold via evilbay, sometime ago, standard factory conversion from Contax mount, it has all the tell-tale signs of the WW2 ones......

I haven't seen but one or two "wartime" f2/85's, the Arriflex to LTM mount mod is interesting????

Pretty kool if this is a honest auction, I love my 50's and the 35 I already have they great to work with, I hope to get a 135 someday and also see if anyone's had any experience shooting a 85 on a M8? - would be nice to see results?

Tom
 
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I will have to look that one up in Mr. Small's book. Until then, what are you referring to specifically?
 
FUJINON said:
If you look at the rear element of the wartime lens it is contained within a rear tube shaped barrel, the post-war Russian Jupiter-12 has a funny "cap" shaped rear element.
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I have not seen a 272 era biogon before, but I thought that the tube-shaped rear elements (similar to the Contax-mount version) were too wide to properly couple with the rangefinder arm of most contemporary leicas. My 284 series biogon in LTM has the funnel-shaped rear element, like the later Jupiter 12s. My lens appears to be a Zeiss product because the rear element is stamped with the last 6 digits of the serial number in the typical Zeiss fashion. Not sure what the shape of the 272 rear element should be. I think that Leica Tom has a biogon with a serial number close to the one in this auction- maybe he could let us know what his lens has for a rear element
 
thanks, got it! Yes, the one in the auction definately has the later style rear element. Maybe it's a post-WW2 hydrid, or a J-12, who knows?
 
I have taken my 284 series biogon apart to clean and re-lube it, and found that the interior lens elements have matched engraved parts numbers, similar to the numbers Brian Sweeney has found on wartime sonnars. As you suggest though, a difficult task to determine what is authentic
 
I just screwed off the rear element of my lens to find a scribed "699" the last 3 numbers of the serial on my f2.8/35 Biogon T - that barrel/pipe shaped element is characteristic of the 1941/42 Factory modified lenses. You do have to wrench even further to get that engraving parts number, but after seeing the "699" scribe for me that's enough and also knowing about where, how and what my lens came off of, (a 1941 Leica IIIC with a 1942 MOOLY C motor, ex-Luftwaffe, Officer etc. etc.) I KNOW it was/is a real 1942 Zeiss Biogon T in LTM. 🙂

Since that #272xxxx numbered Biogon T didn`t show up in the printed research documents so far from Zeiss, I would be safe to presume that it is a postwar Jena/Russian Army build just using *unused* WW2 era serial numbers series that were not issued to delivered/sold Contax's, so many postwar lenses with numbers which don't turn up in the surviving Zeiss records can only be assumed as much, not really "fakes" as collectors have been in-correctly calling them for years, (I included) but "restposten" lenses, just built from spare WW2 era German parts and stamped with serial numbers open to record, which some even dated back to 1940 and before........

As many here at RFF know , I've researched WW2 era and Post WW2 US Army issue Leica's and their deliveries and records from these eras are crazy enough..............the surviving shipping and delivery records from/at Zeiss Jena are a nightmare! 😉

I still have heard NOTHING from the sellers of this gear in the UK concerning fresh photos etc. etc.


Tom
 
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Anybody bid on this? I never did, because a couple of the lenses were probably rebarreled at some point, and also because without better pictures one could not tell if the 8.5cm and 13.5 cm lenses were genuine CZJ or re-labeled LTM Jupiters. Too much money to risk on an unknown product.
 
Nope I didn't...........only (2) lenses looking right to me via WW2 era and that was the 50 f1.5 and the 135 f4 ~ the rest all looked rebarreled, strange mounts etc.

The sellers didn't answer back any questions or send pictures, that's a true red flag!

Tom
 
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