50 Summicron Rigid vs Summilux ASPH

Erik van Straten said:
gelatin silver print (summilux 50mm f1.4 v1 black paint) leica mp

full aperture

Erik.

48675933336_36eeb89544_b.jpg
Click to expand...

Erik, would you please kindly tell us why you think the black paint v1 Summilux has a different lens configuration than the other?

This is something I wasn't aware of in the Leica world. I can clearly see I difference, specialy in the sharpness effect on the specular highlights that are close to the plain of focus.

In fact, when I made a comment on your pictures with the man under the umbrella - I got kind of confused and hade to rephrase my sentence so that it would make sense, since I thought I was commenting on the v2, but it was not so - it was apparently as you say the v1 Summilux? I was scratching my head - I am very good and picking a lense by looking up carefully you know.
 
To José, when you compare the black paint and the normal production Summilux 50mm f1.4 v1 (from 1959 to 1961), serial numbers 16XXXXX and 17XXXXX (only 400 black paint lenses made), you'll see a difference in coating. The chrome version has a yellow/blue coating and the black paint lenses have a strong red/orange coating. So the configuration of the lens elements is the same, but the used glasses are different. This is easy to see in the pictures, the pictures from the black paint lenses are sharper. The chrome ones are very good too, but they stay behind in sharpness, not much, but it can be seen.
The Summilux 50mm f1.4 v2 is a completely different design, with two doublets in the rear. Numbers from 1844001. Not very sharp at full aperture, looks like the Noctilux 50mm f1.

To Brusby, the sharpness of your ASPH is very good, but the bokeh is not really to my taste. Quality of bokeh is however very subjective, it depends a lot on the taste of the viewer. I prefer the bokeh of the old lenses.

Erik.
 
teddy said:
when I made a comment on your pictures with the man under the umbrella - I got kind of confused and hade to rephrase my sentence so that it would make sense, since I thought I was commenting on the v2, but it was not so - it was apparently as you say the v1 Summilux? I was scratching my head - I am very good and picking a lense by looking up carefully you know.
Click to expand...

The man with the umbrella is with the v1 black paint, no. 1704XXX.

Erik.
 
Erik van Straten said:
To Brusby, the sharpness of your ASPH is very good, but the bokeh is not really to my taste. Quality of bokeh is however very subjective, it depends a lot on the taste of the viewer. I prefer the bokeh of the old lenses.

Erik.
Click to expand...

I often like the bokeh of the older lenses and use them on many occasions when I want to add a certain character to the background. Unfortunately it can be too busy with some types of backgrounds and particularly with foliage when it's close to the subject. They can emphasize shapes and details I might not want to highlight. For those occasions where I want a smoother, less distracting environment that puts more emphasis on say a model or other main subject the asph is a good choice.

wide open at f1.4, all natural light at sunset so pretty low in intensity. The extra stop came in handy. (note: some skin smoothing was done 'cause this image was prepared for purposes other than forum display)

m240 50mm Summilux ASPH @ f1.4
M2408313 by Brusby, on Flickr
 
+1 for the "rigid" and these last images from Derek and Erik taken with that lens. The thread title to me suggests a strange comparison. As images here show, they're all nice lenses and each with its own attributes. I guess it comes down to which one suits you for a particular camera and or function.

David
 
Thank you, Raid and David! Here's another one with the rigid.

Yes, I agree with David, 50mm f1.4 lenses are by me most often used at full aperture and 50mm f2 lenses on all apertures.

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 rigid) leica m2

Erik.

51046594818_e9a261b593_b.jpg
 
You're welcome Erik, and I like this one above as well. Will hazard a guess you were at f2.8 or 4 making it.

I had a Dual Range back in the nineties that I loved. The ergonomics though didn't gel for me with the aperture ring difficult to handle so I sold it. I was later at a camera show one time and playing with one, on an RD-1. I made an exposure and something about the look wow'd me and I thought it would be fun to have another one. I recently picked up from a good friend, an M3 with a Rigid 50 attached. He was actually given the camera and didn't have use for it...so I got a nice deal on it.

This image below, I also printed, was made at a Chess Room in Amsterdam ( in '98), and taken with my Dual Range, looks to be XP-2.


David


41668893.Chesscleanresize.jpg
 
Thanks David! Lovely shot! So you know Amsterdam! Nice you love the rigid too. It was my first Leica lens, on an M3, back in 1978. I still have the lens, but not the camera. After some time, the lens developed a terrible haze, that ten or fifteen years ago was cleaned by the great repairman Scherpenborg. The lens is since then in top condition. The shot above is taken at full aperture. It is still one of the best Leica lenses there is, together with the latest version of the collapsible Summicron (the version with the hard coating). After all these years both my rigid and my collapsible are scratch free and I'm still using them.

gelatin silver print (summicron 50mm f2 collapsible) leica mp

"Rome, 2007"

Erik.

48014772531_e5c4e5c107_b.jpg
 
Love the Collapsible, and finding one w/hard coating is like finding an M3 w digital sensor 🙂. Sadly I can't say I know Amsterdam. Although I have been to Schiphol many times (a world unto its own). My ex wife and I were there and stayed at our friends who at that time had a place in Utrecht so we made it into town before driving to their wedding near Lyon. She was French. It was fun visit. I would love to get there again and bicycle through the countryside too. I have a portrait from the 90s (a print I made, maybe I will scan it) of my son that I love and the bokeh is so smooth, made with collapsible 50. The coating on mine was not bad, but I kept my mitts off of it and a filter on it. David
 
I personally like vintage leica lenses for B&W and modern leica lenses like the ASPH for color.... which I find I like the color tones on the ASPH at all apertures... where as on the vintage leica lenses... I've shot a '39 Summitar B&W tones and sharpness partially in the middle unreal.... but overall I like modern Leica lenses for my color work which is what I do the most these days.
 
My apologies for not responding sooner; it appears as though the forum software neglected to inform me of the new posts. Glad I checked! 😎

I realize that seeking to compare the Rigid with the current Lux could be viewed as somewhat of a strange ask. When I posed the question, I was thinking primarily of resolution, though there's more to it, of course. I hadn't considered that the Lux is most often shot wide open for its beautiful bokeh, while the Rigid is more of an aperture all-rounder, though more useful in the middle stops where its sharpness doesn't fall off toward the corners.

So... I'm definitely keeping my Rigid, but will pick up a new Lux and get to know it, too.

​​​​​​​Some great images in this thread. Thanks, gentlemen, for sharing them along with your thoughts.
 
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