50mm ASPH Summilux Problem

Yes I miss my Agfa rep and all his fine products. I really wish Ilford could afford do this, I bet they would do it right. I never did enough business with Kodak to have a dedicated rep, but had two or three folks at the 800 'info center' that I dealt with pretty regularily. Last time I called none of them were still there, I got someone who didn't seem to have much more info than me. (can't even remember now what I wanted to know- this was 1+ year ago) There was a lot of knowledge there that I hope hasn't been lost.
 
I have had problems with the 50 lux asph... Have owned two altogether...1xstandard and my latest is a lhsa version. Both lenses have had the same problem. Set at infinity the rangefinder patch doesn't quite align.tried on all my M bodies and i don't have this problem with any of my other lenses.. If i apply slight pressure under the end of the lens then it aligns. The first example i had i sent back under passport ..it came back perfect ..trouble was after few days using it the problem returned. My guess is that it's tolerances at work and all they did is just filled the helicoid with more/diff. lube in order to compensate . I sold my first lens as it was too much trouble to send back again(took 2 and half months first time round).I went to shop to test out 3x lhsa versions they had. They all did the same except one which is the one i bought. roughly 1 weeks after using it ,it has developed the same problem. Now owning an M8 its much easier to test out the lens for sharpness and sure enough it is only accurate if i focus whilst putting pressure on the underside of the lens. It is only the closest focus distance where i don't need to apply the pressure. Its very frustrating for a $4000 lens to have to put up with this but if i send to Leica it will probably be another 2-3 months without it again.I don't want to be without this lens as i love its rendition and is my fav. lens..so for now i put up with it.Sounds like you might have a similar pronlem with yours. I would be interested to hear what dag have to say.
 
I had the standard tabbed version of the 50/1.4 Asph and focus accuracy was spot on but I did notice placing upward finger pressure under the front of the barrel did indeed change the focus of the rf patch. I attribute this to the rf cam, which is attached to the inner barrel, being tilted backward by pushing up against the front end of external barrel. Obviously, this is bound to happen if the is any play within the mount since it only takes a few microns of cam movement to change the rf patch position. What you are actually paying for is the very high expense of the glass, the complexity of the focusing mount, modern computer design and the higher cost of German labor. What's lacking is the fanatical file and fit of older lenses that were built like tanks from E. Leitz. This was a completely different company than the current Leica, Inc. of Solms but for better or worse, it's all we have now. If they did have the same attention to detail as many years past, the lens would cost cosiderably more due to higher rejection rates and increased labor cost.
 
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X-Ray: I have had mysterious light bands like that before, and I eventually figured out the culprit. With my MP, if I advance to the very end of the roll, such that you cannot advance any more...i.e. the shutter curtain caps are in the middle of the frame, I can get this error. What is happening is that there is a very small light leak between the two curtains when they are advanced like this. If your lens cap is off and it is daylight out, as you rewind you will get faint (or even bright white) bands of light where you stop during rewind. Since with the MP you have to stop ever few turns to reposition your grip, you wind up with these bands of light. They only affect the image area, they are perfectly straight and vertical (for a landscape orientation), but they don't occur in the same place every frame (becuase your rewinding is not perfectly symmetrical). The solution is to not advance to the very last frame and/or put the lens cap on when you rewind.

I am not certain that this is what is happening to you, but it happened with my MP a few times and took me forever to figure out.
 
FABPHOTO: This is exactly what I'm seeing in my asph. I agree it's not what i would expect out of a lens of this cost or any lens other than a cheap consumer lens. I actually like my Zeiss Biogon as well or better and may sell the summilux when it returns. I'm shooting more and more in extremely dim light and finding I use my Nokton 35 more at 1.2 and 1.4 and wishing I had more light. I'm shooting 1600 fuji neopan and running out of light. I may sell the summilux and buy a Noctilux when it returns from DAG.

Stuart:

You might be onto something here. Very possible. I was under dim light and really only saw the problem in a few frames but I think I'll give it a try in bright light without a lens just to push the possiblilty of making it happen again.

Thanks!
 
Well I tried a little test with a roll by exposing it to a solid tone. The roll ended in mid frame so I took the lens off and rewound the film stopping every turn of the winder. I exposed the shutter to direct sunlight and had no bands. I think Stuarts answer is one of the more likely ones and feel it could have been a film chip in the shutter of some dirt that might have caused the curtain not to have capped all the way. I've been had by film chips in other cameras before.

Tomorrow I'll shoot one more roll for Neopan 400 through the camera and see if I can make it happen or see anything on another roll from that batch.
 
Stuart you do seem to be onto a possible cause. But wouldn't there be potential for light leaks when winding on with no cap?
 
I think when you wind on, it is too quick to affect it. The shutter is only in the middle of the frame for a matter of milliseconds. I suppose it could happen if you advance halfway and stop.
 
I think Stuart has the answer but I believe it was a fluke possibly due to dust in the shutter or a film chip as I mentioned before. I had a piece of the paper tab from a roll of 120 get torn off when the film went through the magazine in a hasselblad once. This tiny piece of paper hammed one side of the back shutter open causing the entire roll to be fogged as the camera was wound. Since I couldn't make it happen again I think this might have been the problem. I've run a hundred or so rolls of bulk loaded film through this body and it's possible a piece of the leader might have broken off. The way I cut the leader this is possible.
 
StuartR said:
X-Ray: I have had mysterious light bands like that before, and I eventually figured out the culprit. With my MP, if I advance to the very end of the roll, such that you cannot advance any more...i.e. the shutter curtain caps are in the middle of the frame, I can get this error. What is happening is that there is a very small light leak between the two curtains when they are advanced like this. If your lens cap is off and it is daylight out, as you rewind you will get faint (or even bright white) bands of light where you stop during rewind. Since with the MP you have to stop ever few turns to reposition your grip, you wind up with these bands of light. They only affect the image area, they are perfectly straight and vertical (for a landscape orientation), but they don't occur in the same place every frame (becuase your rewinding is not perfectly symmetrical). The solution is to not advance to the very last frame and/or put the lens cap on when you rewind.

I am not certain that this is what is happening to you, but it happened with my MP a few times and took me forever to figure out.
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I tried to simulate the problem earlier this week and finally concluded it was a fluke. this weekend I was at a once in a lifetime shoot but used two bodies. One MP body was loaded with 100 and the other with 400 and alternated with 1600 B&W. One roll shot with the questionable body displayed the banding. I believe Stuart is on the money that the shutter isn't totally capping on the last partial frame of the roll. It only seems to happen when the roll ends short of a full frame and I rewind. This roll had bands in the blank frames that I wound off in the first of the roll. Stuart, good call, you're right.

It's an MP a la carte body that I ordered and received a year ago April. Back to Leica tomorrow!

In the past week I've had my 50 asph go in for repairs and now my new MP.

Leica, where's your QC? You're not the same Leica I knew in the 60's.
 
To put it in perspective as its pointed out often, we only hear about the 'problems' usually. Yes, Leica glass itself is great, but there seems to be more problems than a company selling camera/lenses at a premium should have.

One of the reasons I'm still happy with my older lenses even if they are not ASPH quality, and one of the reasons I've been more than happy with my new Nikon SP and the couple reissued lenses - they are not a 'Leica', but for a new quality rangefinder they look, feel, and seem to be put together better than a new Leica.

Doesn't make me not want a new Leica lens or camera, but I do think about the quality control issues.

Glad you worked out the reason for the MP problem.
 
I sent mine in to Leica for repair after the first time it happened and did not see it again until earlier this year. Now I just don't advance to the very very last frame. I stick with 37 instead of 37.5. If I do go to the absolute end by mistake, I just put the cap on to rewind. I don't know if this is a repairable issue or just a design flaw in the MP. My MP is a very very early one (M6 ISO dial). I have never had the problem on my M7 or any earlier M, but that does not mean it can't happen.

Anyway, it is such a minor thing to me that I don't even think it is worth waiting the months that it takes Leica to repair things these days. They are so backed up over there that it is not worth the wait.
 
I'm getting ready to call leica and ship it today. I have enough bodies to get me through but am very annoyed with the QC. I have two other MP's and my old M6 plus a 2 and a 3 and have shot Leicvas for 40 years and never had a problem. This one was an a la carte and the ISO dial came was lose from the factory.

I don't generally carry lens caps and when I'm shooting I don't want to have to deal wit that. Much of what I'm shooting happens quickly and there's no going back to reshoot.

Thanks!
 
Man, if I had paid nearly 3000 bucks of my long-time, hard-earned money for a MP body and it had a loosey goosey ISO dial I would be swearing in German to someone at Solms as I demanded a replacement body. Makes me treasure the M2-M3 QC era even more!
 
The capped shutter does sound likely, and often I get caught without a cap in my pocket. I think I'll start tensioning the shutter fully after rewinding a bit to make sure I don't see this effect. I never have, but seeing it and reading the description it does sound highly likely.

None of my glass is new enough to be asph.
 
spyder2000 said:
The capped shutter does sound likely, and often I get caught without a cap in my pocket. I think I'll start tensioning the shutter fully after rewinding a bit to make sure I don't see this effect. I never have, but seeing it and reading the description it does sound highly likely.

None of my glass is new enough to be asph.
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Honestly I don't know if I like the asph glass any better than the nonasph. Nothing wrong with the older glass and IMO it has a better signature, the non ASPH that is. Anyway my favorite lenses at this point are my Zeiss and none are asph.
 
I like the apshericals for wide angles and up to the 50/1.4 ASPH. After that, I think the 75/1.4 has a nicer character than the 75/2 apo asph, but both are fantastic. Anyway, to each their own.
 
thomasw_ said:
Man, if I had paid nearly 3000 bucks of my long-time, hard-earned money for a MP body and it had a loosey goosey ISO dial I would be swearing in German
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No need to tax your throat, they understand English. I think. I hope.

I'm building up steam myself.
 
intersting thread!

I also think stuard got it right since I had this problem too with my old CLA´d M3.
I investigated emidiatly since the cam was CLA´d at Leica service and figured that it was the little extra pressure I applied to the winding crank at the last half frame that dragged the first curtain just wide enough to make a gap between 1st and second.
also the bands were allways uniform but not at the same spot! quite annoying for sure and moreso when "one chance" events are covered....
my solution was to flip the rewind switch and release the shutter to zero position before winding back. worked out ok

I really hope your MP will be allright from now on!
 
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