50mm f/1.4 options for the M mount.

[Lax Jought]

I'm in the market for a new 50mm f/1.4 lens for the M mount, but here's the back-story:

The Voigtlander 50mm f/1.1 Nokton has been my go-to lens for the past couple of years. It's been a great performer - I've never had any focus shift issues and it's reasonably sharp wide open at f/1.1 (and phenomenally sharp from f/1.8 or f/2 onwards).

However, three reasons why I'm looking to upgrade:

1) The build doesn't seem to be that great. It seemed to be fine for the first year or so of regular use, but after that I would constantly lose a few photos due to the screws on the barrel coming a bit loose and throwing the focus off by a smidgen. So now I have to make sure all the screws are tightened before taking the lens to a photography gig.

2) Minimum focusing distance is 1m, I guess it's not a mega deal breaker but there have been a couple of occasions when I wish I could get closer. A 0.7m minimum doesn't seem like much but it's preferable.

3) I have a Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 (Canon EF mount) which I use on my Sony A7 and Canon DSLR and I am constantly blown away by the IQ from this lens.

So I went off on a search for a 50mm f/1.4 to upgrade to and was surprised to discover that there are very very few workhorse options for the M mount.

Here is a list of lenses I found:

Voigtlander 50mm f/1.1
Obviously I've already got this and want to upgrade.

Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5
I'm looking to upgrade from the Voigtlander.

Zeiss 50mm Sonnar f/1.5
Focus shift issues and its unique IQ characteristic - reluctant to rely on this as a general workhorse.

Zeiss 50mm Planar f/2
I work in a lot of low light conditions, I need all the f/stops I can get and I'm reluctant to rely on f/2 when the going gets tough.

Leica 50mm f.0.95
$11,000+ !!!

Leica 50mm f/1.4
This might be the only option.

I was kind of surprised to find that Zeiss does not produce f/1.4 ZM lenses other than their 35mm and focus-shifting 50mm f/1.5 (according to their website).

Is the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 the only option to upgrade to?

 

[mgrinnan]

There's a Canon/LTM 50mm f/1.4 in the classifieds right now... from what I've read it's pretty good, but I don't own one.... You should buy it and tell me how it is!!

 

[Lax Jought]

There's a Canon/LTM 50mm f/1.4 in the classifieds right now... from what I've read it's pretty good, but I don't own one.... You should buy it and tell me how it is!!

I just had a look at the ad - it has haze unfortunately. I wasn't looking for a vintage lens as a general workhorse anyway. 😱

 

[jaapv]

You might consider stepping back to 35 mm, the difference is not that big, which would give you the Zeiss 35/1.4 which is a better lens than the Summilux 35 FLE, certainly considering the price, IMHO.

 

[Richard G]

The Zeiss C Sonnar in a hearbeat. I've used it as a standard for months on end on my M5. Used it a lot on the M9. You get used to the focus shift, if you ever even discover it. See Roger Hicks on this lens. Don't listen to how it's a specialist lens. C is for classic maybe, but more importantly C is for compact.

 

[peterm1]

If you are willing to go a little wider I would suggest considering the Voightlander 43mm 1.4. Its a superb performer and we'll worth it's price. It works well as a replacement for a 35 mm or a 50mm.

 

[aoresteen]

The Nikon Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 was available in LTM. Same era as the Canon 50mm f/1.4. That might work for you.

Here's Roger Hick's article on the Sonnar 50mm f/1.5:

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps firstlook sonnar 50.html

 

[ferider]

Interesting experience you have with the 1.1 Nokton. Outstanding lens optically, IMO. If you have one that produces good results for you, consider fixing it for good, like adding nail polish or locktite to the screws. Can you show us photos of which screws are getting loose, please ?

The Nikkor and Canon 50/1.4 lenses are wonderful classics, both come stock with 1m min. focus, but the Nikkor can be modified to focus down to 0.7m. The Canon barrel-distorts quite heavily. The Nikkor is rectilinear but - as Sonnar - will shift. But - under the bottom line - at f1.4, either classic lens will have low contrast, not sure if you can live with that coming from the Nokton 1.1.

IMO, build varies more from lens to lens than from brand to brand. For example, the ZM Sonnar (manufactured by Voigtlander) can develop wobble. The chrome Nokton 1.5 (outstanding optically) is built like a tank, better than the 1.1.

If you want both decent contrast at f1.[45], don't want to go Voigtlander again, and want solid build, I recommend the E43 Summilux. Min. focus of 1m, but - IMO - better built and cheaper these days than the E46 version which goes down to 0.7m. The E43 Summilux is one of the longest produced Leica lenses ever. Of course there is the 50/1.4 Asph, one of the best 50s ever made, but it will cost you > 2.5 kUS.

Not sure which camera you use. If you still use M8 and/or M9, and since the Leica 50/1.4 lenses are not cheap, this might be the time to consider going for a 240 or 262, the additional speed might allow you to survive with a 50/2.

Good luck,

Roland.

 

[Lax Jought]

You might consider stepping back to 35 mm, the difference is not that big, which would give you the Zeiss 35/1.4 which is abetter lens than the Summilux 35 FLE IMHO.

Hi jaap, good to see you here, your opinion is always appreciated.

I already have my eye on the Zeiss 35mm but I'd lke to stick with the 50mm if possible. A lot of what I do involves stage/concert/theatre/recital/film set work (which is also the reason why I need fast lenses).

I've found that the 50mm gets me close enough when I can't get closer, and anything further away I will fall back on a longer telephoto on the A7 or DSLR. It seems that the 50mm is the lens I depend on the most, it is very rare that I need anything wider.

 

[Lax Jought]

The Zeiss C Sonnar in a hearbeat. I've used it as a standard for months on end on my M5. Used it a lot on the M9. You get used to the focus shift, if you ever even discover it. See Roger Hicks on this lens. Don't listen to how it's a specialist lens. C is for classic maybe, but more importantly C is for compact.

I was very tempted by the Sonnar.

Isn't it not very sharp as you get towards the edges when it's wide open and thereabouts?

The focus shift makes me very nervous too because I often work with fast moving subjects in low light so having to worry about focus shift seems like another problem I could do without. 🙁

 

[Lax Jought]

If you are willing to go a little wider I would suggest considering the Voightlander 43mm 1.4. Its a superb performer and we'll worth it's price. It works well as a replacement for a 35 mm or a 50mm.

Hi Peter, I was hoping to steer away from the Voigtlander lenses though. I already two Voigts - the 50mm f/1.1 and the 35mm f/1.4 MC. I love the 35mm but it is prone to some serious (and I mean SERIOUS) lens flares when there is a light source nearby, and even when stopped down the edges are still not too sharp.

 

[Lax Jought]

The Nikon Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 was available in LTM. Same era as the Canon 50mm f/1.4. That might work for you.

Here's Roger Hick's article on the Sonnar 50mm f/1.5:

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps firstlook sonnar 50.html

I wasn't looking at vintage lenses as I need something modern-ish and clean-ish in terms of lens character...

... but I might have a look at the Nikkor if I can't find anything else. I'll check out the article on the Sonnar in a minute too. Thanks!

 

[mdarnton]

In spite of its age the Canon 50/1.4 has modern rendering and good ones are easy to find and cheaply, too. It doesnt usually sufffer the fogging that other Canons sometimes have. It also handles and balances very well on M Leicas. I wouldnt be so quick to reject it. I have a mess of 50s, including two different-era Summicrons and the f1.1 Ultron, and it's one of my two favorites

 

[Charlie Lemay]

I've had a C Sonnar since they first came out. I shoot with it wide open all the time. Maybe I got lucky, but I have never noticed a focus shift. It is one of my favorite lenses precisely because it does get softer in the corners.

 

[kermaier]

If you can find one, and don't mind the size, the Konica M-Hexanon 50/1.2 Limited is an outstanding performer. Of all the great lenses I've had and sold, I think that might be the one I most regret.

BTW, I get that you're trying to stay away from Voigtlander, but the 50/1.5 Nokton-M is really solidly built (at least the chrome one that I have is).

 

[Lax Jought]

Interesting experience you have with ....

Hi Roland, thanks for that info about the Nikkor and Canon, maybe I will give them a miss. Anyway this is why I was hoping for a more modern lens.

Here's a pic of the 50mm f/1.1, the screw right in the middle of the photo is an example. The screws all around the barrel along that same ring gets loose. In fact, you can't really see it in the photo but it leaks a bit of oil out from under the screws when they are loose, with my eyes I can see a bit of oily residue now.

I have been using an M8.2 but also using the 50mm f/1.1 via a Metabones adapter on the Sony A7 (but I'm not liking the A7 very much for various reasons, even though it's a capable canera otherwise).

Another reason why I'm wanting to upgrade the lens is because I am intending on purchasing an M240 or M262 some time in the coming year. I would very much prefer rangefinder photography with a single fast 50mm lens for yhe vast majority of my work, with the occasional fall back on longer or wider lenses on the A7 or DSLR when the situation calls for it.

 

[ferider]

Thank you much for the photo, LH. Next time they get loose, before you screw them back in, dunk the screw tips in nail polish first.

Another reason why I'm wanting to upgrade the lens is because I am intending on purchasing an M240 or M262 some time in the coming year.

You will get at least two additional stops in the dark tones when you do this. Also note that the 240/262 50mm framelines will fit 1m min. focus very well, they will be slightly larger than what you are used to.

In any case, my suggestion to go for an E43 Summilux remains - and if only for build quality. Will run you around 1.2-1.3k US, these days. I've used that lens a lot on film. Let me know if you need more details.

Roland.

 

[Vincent.G]

How about a Millennium Nikkor-S 50/1.4 + Amedeo adapter?

Or a Noctilux 50/1.0?

 

[Lax Jought]

In spite of its age the Canon 50/1.4 has modern rendering and good ones are easy to find and cheaply, too

The photos I've seen online look a little on the soft side though, has that been your experience too?

I've had a C Sonnar since they first came out. I shoot with it wide open all the time. Maybe I got lucky, but I have never noticed a focus shift.

Could it be that your lens was calibrated for f/1.5 as opposed to the standard f/2.8?

the Konica M-Hexanon 50/1.2 Limited

BTW, I get that you're trying to stay away from Voigtlander, but the 50/1.5 Nokton-M is really solidly built (at least the chrome one that I have is).

Will check out hexanon, thanks!

The Voigt f/1.5 looks pretty good on paper, glad to know that it's solidly built. I was thinking about using it as a back-up lens.

 

[raid]

There are many options as you can tell from the remarks above.
I have many 50mm lenses that I love using, which include these lenses with max aperture 1.5 or faster:

1. Nikkor Millenium 50/1.4 (with Amedeo adapter to M)
2. Rigid Summicron [even though not as fast]
3. Canon 50/1.5, 50/1.4 , 50/1.2
4. Zeiss Sonnar 5cm/1.5
5. Pentax Takumar 50/1.4 adapted to M.
6. CV 50/1.5

There are many excellent options also for 35mm lenses. Take your pick.