5D mkII owner with general questions on m8/m8.2/m9

You make a very good point. However, many of us do understand that aspect of digital, it's just that we have no desire to design our own digital "film." So what you see as the big attraction of digital is what I see as its greatest drawback in terms of the need for annoying (for me) chores of post-processing, profiling, etc. Personally, I think Kodak, Fuji, etc. are missing a significant business opportunity by not using the expertise they developed in creating film emulsions to create & sell their own digital equivalents, i.e., prepackaged "looks" in the form of software plug-ins & products, rather than leaving that market to Alien Skin, iPhone apps like Hipstamatic, etc.

x-ray said:
Most digital users miss the point of shooting digital. I guess we all have our reasons but the big one is the versatility in file processing. I shoot Canon digital 1 series in my work so I'm not up on the 5 series files but all digital files share common traits. For me the big advantage other than cost and speed of delivery to the client is the ability to create my own look. it's like designing a custom film emulsion for each job. You have the ability to dictate the final outcome where as with film you're stuck with the look that the engineers at Kodak, fuji, Agfa etc. have built into the emulsion. You design the emulsion through profiles, curves, post processing and what have you. It's totally up to you and if you're not getting what you want form a camera of the level of the 5 Canon then it's most likely your fault.
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I can focus my Ikon in lower light than my 1Ds3 will focus (or my old 5D) provided I've got something clear enough to focus on. But if they have enough light - which is still less than you need to make a vaguely clear handheld photo at iso3200 the dslrs are much faster and generally pretty accurate.

As for the comments about colour from the canons being over saturated, surely that depends how you convert the raw files. It can be pretty much what you want.

MIke
 
Ranchu said:
Well what? Have they fixed the goofy flexing-with-temperature-changes AF mirror?
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Yes, and they will tell you if your s/n has had the fix should you buy one used and, if it hasn't, will fix it free in about one week or so, door to door. No real worries.
 
x-ray said:
Most digital users miss the point of shooting digital. I guess we all have our reasons but the big one is the versatility in file processing. I shoot Canon digital 1 series in my work so I'm not up on the 5 series files but all digital files share common traits. For me the big advantage other than cost and speed of delivery to the client is the ability to create my own look. it's like designing a custom film emulsion for each job. You have the ability to dictate the final outcome where as with film you're stuck with the look that the engineers at Kodak, fuji, Agfa etc. have built into the emulsion. You design the emulsion through profiles, curves, post processing and what have you. It's totally up to you and if you're not getting what you want form a camera of the level of the 5 Canon then it's most likely your fault.
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+1 represents well the practitioner's view. a fair number of experienced 5D users would tell you that the 5D is a very fine "natural light" camera indeed. and bonus points for all the non-Canon glass that you can run on it, or any of the 1-series bodies for that matter. you can get a lot of different looks out of a 5D, basically a $1K camera these days.
 
I recently bought the Canon 5d2, i don't like it at all. I thought the better than the M8 iso and af would be useful at times but the af is utterly naff and i realize that after a year of using the M8 i can focus really quickly with it. The Canon is so heavy, think i've just got so used to the size and style of range finders. Also i prefer the Leica colours and clarity. Since buying the Canon i realise i'm a complete rf convert.
BTW, can anyone tell me about warranty on the canon gear in the UK, it seems it is non transferable, i don't know what to do about that.
Cheers
 
peewee said:
Since buying the Canon i realise i'm a complete rf convert.
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Ah, that's exactly what buying a 5D (mark I) did to me. Perfect files are all nice and dandy, but if I had to pick between a Leica and a 5D to take outside, 10 times out of 10 I pick the Leica.
 
animefx said:
- I've seen several comments on this forum from people saying that they wish the m8/m8.2/m9 had the "color" reproduction of a Canon 5D. I am a 5D mark II owner and I think everything, including color generally looks superior on the Leica m8/m8.2/m9.

- I am frustrated with the 5D mark II's autofocus... both the AI Servo tracking and one-shot are almost pathetic. I'm thinking about selling ALL of my DSLR gear and getting an M9 along with a Summilux 50mm f/1.4 ASPH, that way I know if the shot is out of focus it's MY FAULT and not the camera's. The 5D does pretty well in well lit scenes but if it's too contrasty, not contrasty enough, or too dark, the auto focus will simply hunt or miss focus all together.
Thanks,
Bryan
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I had a 5D. Currently have a 5D2. I used to have two Leica M7s and a Zeiss Ikon.

Color should largely be about what you dial into the RAW converter. If the 5D's files are "too saturated," you've got something set wrong, somewhere. If you're just shooting JPGs, you don't really have a right to complain about color, as you're just accepting what some engineer thinks is good.

AF. I've never used Servo AF. On any camera. I always focus and then expose. Working that way, i don't know how it's even possible to have shots out of focus. If your lens is front- or back-focusing, you can adjust it with the AF micro-adjustment feature in the 5D2. If it's not, you're just shooting wrong, or trying to do something outside of the capabilities of AF. People shoot Formula 1 races with Canon AF. And, if you can't get it with a Canon, using the focus and then expose technique, shooting with a rangefinder will be excruciating. Forget about shooting anything that isn't dead still, unless you want to rely on DOF. At that point, you're back to what you can do with a 5D2 even if the AF doesn't work at all. Except you can actually see what's in focus through the SLR's lens.... I hope this isn't offensive, but do you know how to use AF? That the sensor has to be positioned on something with contrast? That you should be using a SINGLE focus point, that you select? In my experience with SLRs and rangefinders, AF SLRs are far better at focusing at wide apertures at anything that isn't dead center. With a rangefinder, you have to focus on the subject in the center of the frame and then recompose if you want any other composition other than dead center. And, if you don't realign the camera/lens axis so that it's exactly the same distance as when you focused, if you're shooting at large apertures, your focus isn't exact. With an SLR, you don't have to do that 'shift dance.' Compose off-center and use an off center focus point, and that's it.

And, if you really need to use Servo/tracking focus, you can. Just shoot a blast of exposures while your 'target' is moving, and select the best one later. With a rangefinder, you're going to get one shot, and, you're going to have to stop down to 'trap focus' to hope you get it in focus. If action is your thing, take note at how few action images you see in a Leica gallery.

I really think there are two things at work. One MAY be small differences in the sensors. I'm skeptical of that significance. Another is that Leica M9 users are very likely to have common influences, and those influences are a contributing factor to the 'Leica aesthetic.' Their post processing choices will be different from the much larger demographic of Canon/Nikon shooters. Someone who buys an M8/M9 is also very likely to be a pretty serious photographer, and someone with a different level of maturity than someone who just bought a Digital Rebel. You're dealing with TASTE. Maybe you just like the choices the M9 shooters are making. You can make the same decisions when shooting a Canon.
 
CK Dexter Haven said:
I had a 5D. Currently have a 5D2. I used to have two Leica M7s and a Zeiss Ikon.

Color should largely be about what you dial into the RAW converter. If the 5D's files are "too saturated," you've got something set wrong, somewhere. If you're just shooting JPGs, you don't really have a right to complain about color, as you're just accepting what some engineer thinks is good.

AF. I've never used Servo AF. On any camera. I always focus and then expose. Working that way, i don't know how it's even possible to have shots out of focus. If your lens is front- or back-focusing, you can adjust it with the AF micro-adjustment feature in the 5D2. If it's not, you're just shooting wrong, or trying to do something outside of the capabilities of AF. People shoot Formula 1 races with Canon AF. And, if you can't get it with a Canon, using the focus and then expose technique, shooting with a rangefinder will be excruciating. Forget about shooting anything that isn't dead still, unless you want to rely on DOF. At that point, you're back to what you can do with a 5D2 even if the AF doesn't work at all. Except you can actually see what's in focus through the SLR's lens.... I hope this isn't offensive, but do you know how to use AF? That the sensor has to be positioned on something with contrast? That you should be using a SINGLE focus point, that you select? In my experience with SLRs and rangefinders, AF SLRs are far better at focusing at wide apertures at anything that isn't dead center. With a rangefinder, you have to focus on the subject in the center of the frame and then recompose if you want any other composition other than dead center. And, if you don't realign the camera/lens axis so that it's exactly the same distance as when you focused, if you're shooting at large apertures, your focus isn't exact. With an SLR, you don't have to do that 'shift dance.' Compose off-center and use an off center focus point, and that's it.

And, if you really need to use Servo/tracking focus, you can. Just shoot a blast of exposures while your 'target' is moving, and select the best one later. With a rangefinder, you're going to get one shot, and, you're going to have to stop down to 'trap focus' to hope you get it in focus. If action is your thing, take note at how few action images you see in a Leica gallery.

I really think there are two things at work. One MAY be small differences in the sensors. I'm skeptical of that significance. Another is that Leica M9 users are very likely to have common influences, and those influences are a contributing factor to the 'Leica aesthetic.' Their post processing choices will be different from the much larger demographic of Canon/Nikon shooters. Someone who buys an M8/M9 is also very likely to be a pretty serious photographer, and someone with a different level of maturity than someone who just bought a Digital Rebel. You're dealing with TASTE. Maybe you just like the choices the M9 shooters are making. You can make the same decisions when shooting a Canon.
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I also shoot with a 5D, an M7, and an Ikon. I couldn't have said it any better.

When you think of how many professional wedding photographers are getting great results from the 5D and 5DII, it's silly to say that the auto focus is the problem. Practice, practice, practice!
 
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