6x11 folders?

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I saw a reference in a Jason Schneider column to, yes, a 6x11 folder. But it didn't take 120--rather, one of the now-gone rollfilm formats. 620 maybe?

I believe he was referring to one of the Ikontas, but did other cameras use this aspect ratio? Can any of them be converted to use 120? I want one.

 

[Roger Hicks]

From (increasingly fallible) memory, 116/616, ie 2-1/2 x 4-1/4 inch or thereabouts. No, you can't convert them.

On the other hand, again from increasingly fallible memory, a few cameras and rollfilm backs can be opened out to 56x100+mm, e.g. MPP rollfilm backs.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Jerry Thirsty]

Kodak made a lot of (now defunct) film formats, and a lot of folding cameras in those formats; see:

http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/FilmHist.html

If you have decent mechanical skills, you can try finding a likely camera on eBay and converting it to work with 120 film. There have been a number of examples I've seen on other forums, but I don't have them bookmarked.

 

[Solinar]

During the 1920's serious amateur photographers would more often than not make contact prints using Velox Lamplight paper. Photographic enlargers were far and few between.

Roll film sizes ranged up to 4x5. The larger the negative - the larger print when contact printed.

Someone who posts over on photo.net has been converting the old Kodak Autographic 3a to accept 120 film. I believe his name is Minh. The original Autographic 3a format was 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inch.

 

[FallisPhoto]

No, you can't convert them.

Yes you can. The question is whether it is worth it. Usually, with european cameras, if it came in 116/616, it also came in 120/620. Anyway, if you can find an old half-frame mask (or make one) for a 116/616 camera, it is a simple matter to go to a hobby shop, buy a length of square cross-section tubing, and epoxy it to the inside of the half-frame mask to make a pair of 2.25 inch film rails. Next you use epoxy putty to extend the film spool holders. Actually, that's the easy part. The hard part is getting backing paper with numbers that will match up right with the frames.

 

[Solinar]

On the big Autographic that used 118 film, extensions to hold the spools dead center, plus a mask and I believe a new red window must be installed. You then shoot 120 at frames 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, but not 12.

The goal is kind of a panoramic look and proper framing is a bear. A 4x5 with sheet film anyone?

 

[Solinar]

Yep, but an Ikonta D is a nicer camera than an Autographic. The Autographic uses a very small look down mirrored finder to compose with.

 

[Abbazz]

Yep, but an Ikonta D is a nicer camera than an Autographic.

There is a nice one on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290262674976&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:u

It comes from an expensive seller but this particular camera has been offered for sale unsuccessfully for a few months, so the price has come down quite a bit. It comes with the Tessar lens and the 5x6.5 mask, which could be useful to convert the camera to 120 film, as stated by FallisPhoto.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yes you can. The question is whether it is worth it. Usually, with european cameras, if it came in 116/616, it also came in 120/620. Anyway, if you can find an old half-frame mask (or make one) for a 116/616 camera, it is a simple matter to go to a hobby shop, buy a length of square cross-section tubing, and epoxy it to the inside of the half-frame mask to make a pair of 2.25 inch film rails. Next you use epoxy putty to extend the film spool holders. Actually, that's the easy part. The hard part is getting backing paper with numbers that will match up right with the frames.

Of course you're right; I was suffering from hardening of the categories, plus an unwillingness to go to all that trouble -- especially, as you say, with the backing paper.

But I think you can still buy one or two emulsions in 116/616. Films for Classics is gone, I think, but I'm reasonably sure I saw them advertised somewhere else. Anyone else remember?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Muggins]

Kodak made a lot of (now defunct) film formats, and a lot of folding cameras in those formats; see:

http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/FilmHist.html

At risk of disagreeing with Solinar, who almost certainly knows a great deal more than I do, the table above states that the biggest size was 112 at 7x5 inches. I don't know how many shots you got on a roll, but anyone who could develop that stuff was guaranteed a second trade as a paper hanger!

Adrian

 

[Solinar]

At risk of disagreeing with Solinar, who almost certainly knows a great deal more than I do, the table above states that the biggest size was 112 at 7x5 inches. I don't know how many shots you got on a roll, but anyone who could develop that stuff was guaranteed a second trade as a paper hanger!

Adrian

Yes it does and I'm sure there was one, but I've never held one and I still haven't looked at the above table. 🙂

The largest roll film folder that I ever had a chance to have a gander at was an Ansco from about WWI Era. That camera was 4x5 roll film, had a feature for sheet film and ground glass, in addition to roll film.

I'm not about to do a conversion, but if I was to convert a camera - I'd want to do it with the more modern Ikonta D suggested by Andrew in Adelaide, mainly because of the Zeiss optics, more modern Compur shutter, front standard design and all-metal construction.

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

70mm film

70mm film

There is a nice one on eBay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...eTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:u

It comes from an expensive seller but this particular camera has been offered for sale unsuccessfully for a few months, so the price has come down quite a bit. It comes with the Tessar lens and the 5x6.5 mask, which could be useful to convert the camera to 120 film, as stated by FallisPhoto.

Cheers!

Abbazz

If this one is based on 116 film you could use 70 mm film without sprocket holes and make backing paper yourself + the creation of rolls. Not easy but at least it keeps that camera untouched. Not much 70 mm film around though. Few European folder manufacturers that went with Kodak's folly format changes but Kodak owned and Ansco-Agfa. I'm surprised Zeiss did.

Ernst Dinkla

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I guess what I am after is the possibility of a 120 camera that will do the 6x11 aspect ratio. There's the Holga pinhole camera, of course, and I believe there was a Voigtlander pinhole pano as well.

What about taking a 6x6 or 6x7 and making a new 6x11 mask for it? Would the lens have enough coverage? You could just advance twice between frames.

 

[Abbazz]

I guess what I am after is the possibility of a 120 camera that will do the 6x11 aspect ratio.

If I recall correctly, the original Brooks-Plaubel Veriwide 100 delivered images measuring more than 90mm long on 120 film.

You could also use a 6x12 rollfilm back on a 4x5 Speed Graphic or modify any folding camera using larger rollfilm to accept 120 spools.

What about taking a 6x6 or 6x7 and making a new 6x11 mask for it? Would the lens have enough coverage? You could just advance twice between frames.

A 6x6 or 6x7 will not have enough coverage for 6x11.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

You could also use a 6x12 rollfilm back on a 4x5 Speed Graphic or modify any folding camera using larger rollfilm to accept 120 spools.

OK, bear with me, because I have never even looked into 4x5 stuff before. You're saying I can buy something like this, and attach it to a Speed Graphic? Any Speed Graphic? What, would you say, is the best affordable camera body to do this with?

I didn't know this was an available option--I would LOVE to do it.

Would I need to buy some kind of viewfinder?

 

[Abbazz]

You're saying I can buy something like this, and attach it to a Speed Graphic? Any Speed Graphic? What, would you say, is the best affordable camera body to do this with?

This Chinese 6x12 rollfilm back will work with any 4x5 camera that has a Graflok back (also called "universal back"). You will need a 4x5 Speed Graphic, Century Graphic or Crown Graphic not older than approx. 1950, because older models were fitted with a different back, which is not compatible with modern rollfilm 6x12 backs. Here's a link to the ultimate resource about Speed Graphic cameras:
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/

Would I need to buy some kind of viewfinder?

There are some 6x12 viewfinders, most of them being quite expensive. Fotoman sells a 6x12 viewfinder for $200. By the way, Fotoman also has the 6x12 camera to match the viewfinder.

Cheers,

Abbazz

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Excellent, thanks so much! I think I would first try using my CV 15mm Heliar viewfinder, and masking the top and bottom in my head. That ought to get me close.

That Fotoman camera looks awesome.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

One more question, does the Mamiya Universal take these backs, too?

EDIT: answered my own question, looks like they will fit, but the lens won't cover the whole frame.

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

One more question, does the Mamiya Universal take these backs, too?

EDIT: answered my own question, looks like they will fit, but the lens won't cover the whole frame.

Depends on which lens. The Mamiya 75mm wide angle like used on the Polaroid 600 but also available with the Mamiya Press mount probably covers it. Then there is the question whether the camera box itself doesn't obscure the light rays at the widest angle.

Anyone used that Chinese 12x6 holder ? Quality ? It looks like it could be adapted (without Graflex adapter) to a converted Polaroid Pathfinder and be less bulky in total than a Graflex combo. Rangefinder use of course like it should be discussed here. I have some Pathfinder bodies in several stages of conversion.

Ernst Dinkla

 

[oftheherd]

One more question, does the Mamiya Universal take these backs, too?

EDIT: answered my own question, looks like they will fit, but the lens won't cover the whole frame.

From time to time on ebay I have seen a seller with plans to convert Mamiya bodies to 9x12. From his posts, the top (therefore the rangefinder) is removed amoung other things. I don't remember what was used for lenses, but I think it was fitted with a mount to add 4x5 lenses.

I am not positive, but I think I remember reading once that the 50mm lens provided coverage beyond the 6x9, but it may not have been as much as 9x12.