70mm Film FUN up ahead

[Calzone]

Rollei Supergrain or Amaloco AM74 in 1+9 is a good combi for the Rollei retro 400S/Superpan 200/Aviphot (Agfa Gevaert).
However iso 160 only. The film is also excellent for B&W slide processing @iso 125. I have used the Klaus Wehner reverse kit (Paderborn, Germany) with great succes. The film is cutted from the same master roll Aviphot 200 E1 / 100um for 70mm, 120 roll film and 35mm which means a bit to thin for 35mm so you must transport only when making the picture . Rollei/Maco is using a bit thicker filt material in the cassette however this clear Polyester film base is prone for the light piping effect. It also has extended Red sensitivity.

Robert,

Thanks so much for your experience her and in other threads.

A lot of my data mining suggests ISO 160 and that Rollie Supergain is a good developer for this film. For 70mm 160 is a great film speed for me.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I shot two rolls for further testing at ISO's 100 and 200 and developing with Diafine. One roll was shot at 10:00 AM under harsh contrast, and the other around 5-6 under bright but more diffused lighting.

It seems the artifacts I have seen and reported in some blue skies likely are ghost relections off a skylight filter while using no hood on a Plaubel 69W Proshift. that has a 21mm FOV. I mistakenly thought this was some Bromide staining.

I developed 4+4 with Diafine, but realize I minimize agitation to only two inversions per minute. This maximizes the compensating effect and also makes for smaller/finer grain.

So the good, the bad, and the ugly is that under high key/high contrast bright summer light Diafine 4+4 with only two inversions provides a HDR film like effect. The dynamic range is wide, the shadow detail at 100 ISO is digital like, and the profound compensating effect works well. This is best suited for shooting after 10 AM when lighting gets rather harsh. The 100 ISO negatives were rather dense. The 200 ISO shots were also good, just that the 100 ISO had more shadow detail and mucho more midrange. 160 ISO for the above conditions is the happy medium.

So the ugly is the second roll which was shot around 5-6 PM under bright light but not harsh lighting made kinda flat negatives that were not so exciting.

So the point here is that for shooting bright high contrast summer sun tha Rollie 400S at 160 ISO for shooting an event like the Mermaid Parade in NYC from 10:00AM till 2:00 PM under harsh lighting Diafine seems like a great developer, but it is a one trick pony.

Cal

 

[dshfoto]

Cal with 70mm Gear NYC

Cal with 70mm Gear NYC

Cal, with 70mm Gear in NYC

 

[Calzone]

Cal, with 70mm Gear in NYC

Steve,

Thanks for posting this for me. You know I'm a lazy slacker. LOL.

The scale of things shows how big a 15 foot 70mm rell is exaggerated by a scrawny/skinny guy (me).

The Baby-Linhof is a Tech V prototype that has no serial number in the accessory shoe, and oddly offers no front or rear movements. No matter because I use it like a press camera with a huge Zeiss 53/4.5 Biogon.

Cal

 

[europanorama]

And here is the 3D model of the Jobo 120/220 reel adapter, to accommodate 70mm film. This will take a short piece of 70mm
But it will fit in a Jobo multi tank 2500 series. Useful! This would be fantastic for test-developing a couple of feet of 70mm film.
I could see using this quite a bit.

Someone here should make these adapters. I would buy one!

Jobo 70mm reel mod No 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Holgamods can do that. see his other adapters. will you contact him and referr to me or should i do that? He must have the drawing and jobo-parts to test. would be easier someone doing who is in usa.
BTW:We are working on a solution to use 120/220(61.5mm) and longer in 70mm-cartridges kodak only for now(linhof must be tested since there is no clamp). successful in Graflex RH-50(67/70) and Hasselblad 70(with modfications in the takeup-set)

 

[europanorama]

And here is the elusive JOBO 70mm Reel and Tank. You can put an inversion watertight cap on this quite easily. So this is the third choice for 70mm tanks and reels that I know of.

Jobo 70mm Tank & Reel 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Jobo 70mm Tank & Reel 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Jobo 70mm Tank & Reel 4 by Nokton48, on Flickr

I hope this thread is helpful for those who have contemplated jumping into 70mm. There is a lot to have to work out and I intend to keeping adding posts as things progress.

I have the complete set with loader-not yet used.(i know its modelname must check it out-out of production. last one was available in island.

 

[europanorama]

I get interested in using 70mm in my Hasselblad, but how do you develop 15 feet of film? It won't fit my stainless steel Nikor reels! (Not too sure how to measure out 15 feet, either. My darkroom is 13 feet long.)

Jobo 2500 system
a) special 2517-reel(220-lenght) 172cm if i dont err.
b) 2500-triple-reel method or
c) with the mentioned adapter which most certainly holgamods will offer.
He should contact him, see my earlier message. i also replied in flickr pls check it also.
Method a-c- Testtank 2820(yes the one from prints 10x20cm) can be used-500ml chemicals used. i mostly developped C-41, also a lot of b+w(when testing cams), some E6 with Job CPA2-machine with lift. always only one piece of 70mm film is very secure....

 

[europanorama]

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ilhp400ulfpr23.html

Apparently Ilford is making 50 foot rolls of 70mm HP5+ this year; I have no specifics. Best to check with a participating Ilford ULF dealer. Looks like this year they are doing perforated type II and non-perforated 70mm in 50 foot cans

I have good news from Kodak. someone stated in FB lately that Kodak is about to offer again 70mm-50 foot only unfortunately. hope it will be 400 asa Colornegative.

 

[europanorama]

What I found hiding in my darkroom closet.

Jim B.

ALDEN
out of production.
i removed the film-counter in fear of scratches. is it safe?
I covered the hole it was offering when removed.
fell down(be aware there is no replacement) and i was lucky they sent me a replacement since the seller was unwilling taking steps. or first the producer didnt want to sell. i remember i hadnt to pay anything(can check it).
if someone is interested i can tell how many turns for how long wounded film. depends fiom-thickness too i have very thin one by agfa PE0.

 

[europanorama]

I'm also making some 70mm progress. I located another A70 magazine, it is already loaded with Agfa Aviphot 200 B&W. And I been test shooting a short end of original Plus-X from 1981, which I loaded last weekend. As I continue cleaning and reorganizing the studio, I will find more of this stuff. I want to load another A70 with 15' of WL Surveillance, to keep going with that. And I have a fresh roll of Efke R100 unperforated I bought at a closeout from J&B, which I can run through another A70 with the rubber adapter wheel. Things are progressing...........

DSC05794 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Thought Fototechnik Wiese in Hamburg must do that Hasselblad-Unperforated 70mm-conversion- maybe you could give some details- those on photo.net are not clear enough. i killed the mechanisme a bit so a specialist should "repair" it and add that o-ring. yes cog-wheel dents are filed down already. i thought using long roll 61.5mm/120/220. but i would not cover the wheel to calculate spacing.
i also have these agfa b+ w film avipan 200S films also a PE0 very thin one. H100, N400(no much), some XRS400 if i dont err. all outdated. 25m of the newest Kodak IR 1443. maybe i will develop E6 or cut down to 120/220 and let if be developped.

 

[europanorama]

Another possibility for 70mm is the Graflex XL RH/50. This was made in two versions; one for the Graflex XL cameras (very nice system rangefinder cameras!) and a version for Graflok Cameras (like my Sinar Normas or Plaubel Makiflexes). Unfortunately this one is too big to fit the RB67..........

Great thing is that (like the Beatty Coleman) it works with perfed or non-perfed 70mm film. That is a very very big deal.............

Graphic RH 50 70mm Film Backs for Graflex XL - 2 by S. Katz, on Flickr

Very fine lenses for the XL Graflex, too. I think the 100mm covers 6x7 but prolly not the 80mm F2.8 Planar. I own a 58mm Grandagon XL lens that I modified to work on my 4x5 Sinar Norma cameras. It -almost- covers 4x5. In fact it will work if forward-focused.

Graflex XL by Peter Lerman, on Flickr

graflex xl by mrchen96, on Flickr

I have both versions of the Singer-Graflex RH-50.
Its simple: XL-version has Graflex XL-frame attached. remove it and its for 4x5.

 

[europanorama]

Dan,

This Topcon "Spooler" for loading 35mm 250 exposure reels seems readily adoptable for 70mm spooling in a changing bag. I bought it for $25.00 from KEH a wile back originally thinking I could use it for Kodak 5222 in 400 foot rolls to respool into smaller rolls for daylight loading using a bulk loader.

There is a dial that stops the crank when the number of exposure setting is met and there are 50, 100, 185, 200, and 250 exposures. There is ample gear multiplication so that three turns of the crank spools precisely one foot of film. The 100 exposure setting spools 14 1/2 feet for 70mm, and 250 exposures I figure provides 36.25 feet in a short roll. If I lift this arm that maintains the film in the sproket the counter resets so I can increment and add to the first 36.5 feet with another 36.5 feet, and possibly will be able to add a third dose to have just over 100 feet (108.75 feet). For 135 all I have to do is create a holder for the 400 feet of film that will maintain the oversized feed roll in a vertical position.

I think I can easily adapt this respooler for 70mm use, especially since I have extra sproketed roller from dissassembled Linhof CINE's. The huge advantages with respooling verses using a daylight bulk loader are, lesss likely to scratch film, and less wear and tare on the felts.

Without any mods BTW I can use the Topcon respooler to meter off 14.5 feet of film.

Cal

There is a Linhof Umwickler(002503)- spooling-machine explicitely for 30m on core or metal-spools or shorter to 4.5m or longer(i can mount 6,5m Vericolor HC) 70mm cartridges. used in total darkness.
Filmführung(filmguidance 2514) only mentioned in seperate from katalogue(1988)pricelist. must ask Linhof if this is an addon or integrated in above device. 002503 was 575 DM 2514: 95 DM. Conversion was 2:1 then 1.5 :1. which were very expensive. got the main device for 35 euro. someone in D had 10 pieces or more. maybe a speculator bought everything. never have seen it. now you know the german expression.

Alden is the better device since its daylight-use and has a counter. or a table i made( since i removed the counter from fear of scratches) showing how much turn for how much lenght.

 

[europanorama]

Here I have attached the "rubber wheel" inside the Hasselblad A70 70mm film magazine, so I can pull unperforated Efke R100 film through the camera.

DSC05801 by Nokton48, on Flickr

One thing I have recently learned, is to thoroughly label everything! Recently I opened a 70mm cassette, thinking it was empty, and exposed the roll. It was from years ago, but you know, some of this 70mm film stock does not weigh all that much. I really thought by shaking it that the cartridge was empty. Now I am going to tape them closed as I load the film and load the cameras.

DSC05802 by Nokton48, on Flickr

that "counter"wheel calculating spacing only is 16.6mm when filed down. is yours also flat ur did you file a notch around for the o-ring?
I will send to hamburg to wiese incl. instructions, I thought someone in photo.net was using 120/220-longroll. i cant imagine how the smaller film 61.5 versus 70mm could engage the o-ring then. better cutting 70mm afterwards.
Holgamods had an idea for a universal slitter i told him if then not 120 downwards but 70mm down. xkaes at dot com can actually deliver for any cuttings. i have multiples, one which cuts both sides cuting inbetween perforations(not good for labs) and one cutting only one side.

 

[europanorama]

Maco has 366m rolls of Agfa AVICOLOR X400-61.5mm

Maco has 366m rolls of Agfa AVICOLOR X400-61.5mm

Jake,

Congrates for the recognition.

As far as the Hassy rollers that are discontinued and no longer available, I have to consult with a friend who 3-D prints and is a bit like me: meaning both a bit crazy, where crazy is a good thing, and is also a photographer.

An example of his work is a "Rose" the flower like plastic retainer that is on a Leica M baseplate that meshes into the three fingered prongs to advance the film.

He gave me a clone of a "Rose" he 3-D printed, and I mounted it on my Wetzlar M6 that I kinda heavily use with a TA Rapidwinder. Been using it for a few years. With a TA Rapidwinder you are suppose to transfere the Rose from your baseplate, but because I'm a lazy slacker Christian just 3-D printed me one.

From Dan's posts I see is a pulley like assembly that uses an O-ring that replaces sprokets. For color shooting not requiring double perf allows shooting 70mm color films.

My friend is an architect and knows CAD, and he has some place that owns and runs the 3-D printers. I wouldn't mind a set myself.

Mark Cuban once said, "Go big or don't go." Creative people are problem solvers and are kinda project oriented. Now I have to be a salesman and convince my friend it is a great idea to make a new project.

I was talking about creating a bulk loader that could handle 800 foot rolls of Kodak 5222, but the response was that the cost would not be cheap because of size. Laser cut acrylic was deemed too much static electricity and would be a dirt magnet, and MDF too hydroscopic, but these pulleys made of plastic instead of aluminum... Hmmmm.

Cal

Cut down from 70mm size Maco of Germany has some 366m longrolls of Agfa Avicolor X-400(latest) in 61.5mm size, 12 x 30.5(100 ft) =366m. they are spooling 120-spools for digibase 200 or similarly named. name-changings. its an overexposed X-400 then unmasked, best for b+w-scanning and scanning. remaining 70mm stocks bought by US-Army they told.
Maybe we can find a pool to make them cut it down.

 

[europanorama]

Cal,

No it's not the 15 foot Jobo reel, this is the 35mm/120 #2502 reel that I have modified to take 70mm film. It will hold about 24 exposures give or take, like a roll of 220, or two rolls of 120.

I built it to accommodate a shorter piece of 70mm, like if I'm doing development tests. The good news is that I can still put the reel in a Multitank 5 or six and agitate it on a Unicolor Uniroller. I cut the reel apart and widened it, to fit the 70mm film.

I don't have the 15' Jobo tank or reel. But I do have the Kindermann, which is similar.

There are many compensating developers. One that immediately comes to mind is D-23, one of the softest working developers I know of. It's just Sodium Sulphite and Metol. You can mix it up using measuring spoons.

I like soft development and that is why I use Legacy Mic-X from Freestyle. I also make up replenisher for it using the old Kodak recipe. Available on the internet or ask me for it. Wonder how it would work with Rollei 400S? Hmmmmmmmm

if you develop for 400 no wonder its contrasty. its 200S originally but can be used between 100 and 400. says datasheet.
( i am currently checking this out with Maco since there was/is a real Pan 400S)

 

[europanorama]

400S aka AVIPHOT Pan 200S for slide-developping also

400S aka AVIPHOT Pan 200S for slide-developping also

Koshofer_Der Film lebt weiter-table telling that 400S(in reality is AVIPHOT Pan 200S) can be developped as slidefilm.
( i am currently checking this out with Maco since there was/is a real Pan 400S)
Dont try the same with T-max 3200 already tried without success in resp. Tetenal chemistry.
google that table add fotointern.ch infront of search. good table showing also all formats up to 8x10-from minox
Digibase CN200 was X100 underexposed i asked MACO. Pro version is 35mm-same inside.
Rollei Superpan 200 must be Avihot Pan 200 since its from Agfa.
Ortho 25 70mm listed also.
who has the UP Efke 100 70mm? want to cut down to 35mm. have all versions of slitters from Joe of xkaes at aol dot com.

 

[europanorama]

WRONG WRONG totally wrong

WRONG WRONG totally wrong

MFM,

If I can get rid of the about 18% VAT then I can possibly get 400S for about $80.00 per roll 120 equiv. At that price it becomes about $2.00 a roll per 120 equiv plus there will be bonus frames. "No money."

Rodinal seems like an inexpensive one shot, but for me the film speed is 50-80 ISO. I surely will exploit this. Since I have three 15 foot reels, I think cutting down an Expert JOBO to handle two reels will give me the capability to develop over 120 6x7's in one tank.

It seems like I discovered for some unknown reason that Microphen is a bad developer with Rollie 400S. Oh-well.

I mined that Rollie "Supergrain" developer is derived from AM-74, AKA Rollie RHS, AKA D74. It is available from Freestyle, 500ml for $21.59. Standard dilutions are 1+9, 1+12, and 1+15. It seems D74 is an earlier version of this developer. This is a liquid developer so it is convenient to use. Great for me because I want to be know as a lazy slacker.

I figure if I need 2 liters per 15 foot, so if I use 1+15 I can do two loaded tanks for $21.59. I'm glad I don't have to deal with the VAT with Freestyle.

I saw some examples of Agfa Superpan 200 (AKA Agfa Aviphot 200/ Rollie 400S) developed with D74 that gave 200 ISO using 1+15. Seems to be exactly what I'm looking for: a compatible compensating developer that gives me a good film speed. One sample I saw 200 ISO D74 1+15 for 5:15.

Dan suggests first contacting MACO. Hopefully they just drop the VAT since they are exporting the film to the U.S. I think an order over $1K would lean in my favor.

On the to do list is buy a used JOBO Expert tank and cut it down into a custom "Calzone" tank that is sized for a pair of 15 footers.

Buy 70mm film from MACO.

Buy Rollie Supergrain Developer.

Cut a cam for my Zeiss 53/4.5 Biogon with my "Linhof Consultant."

Cal

Agfa Superpan 200 (AKA Agfa Aviphot 200/ Rollie 400S
is wrong-two films: normal and soft contrast films
Rollei Superpan 200= Agfa AVIPHOT Pan 200
Rollei Retro 400S= Agfa AVIPHOT Pan 200S( S for soft) so underexposed.( i am currently checking this out with Maco since there was/is a real Pan 400S)

 

[europanorama]

Unprecise Agfa Aviphot 200

Unprecise Agfa Aviphot 200

Cal,

"Acufine is a strong developer so you can expect small grain and short times."

Digital Truth says seventeen minutes at 20C for Acufine with Agfa Aviphot 200 at 200-400 ISO (same film as Rollei 400S; I have a hundred feet of it). So this type of timing goes the other way. No replenisher for Microphen, so not interested. Too expensive to use without replenisher. It will be interesting to see how Rollei 400S responds to extended Acufine development. Acufine and I go way back, all the way to the 70s when doing award winning scholastic press photography. It's an old friend. Replenishment is something new with that stuff, in Ohio we only had quarts available. B&H has gallons, and the replenisher. Something new to me. Takes a lot of soup to cover those big reels.

Diafine and I have gotten along OK in the past; Having a gallon is something new. Again a nod to B&H

Since there were/are color and b+w the latter are named Pan.
AVIPHOT Pan 200S here aka underexposed Rollei Retro 400S. 100-400.( i am currently checking this out with Maco since there was/is a real Pan 400S)
I had AVIPHOT Color N200(and N400, there was also N800) -was grainy but good with the right supersharp lenses. there was no 70mm alternative beside Kodak and Fuji and Konica.

 

[europanorama]

This 70mm spilled into another thread.

Check out my last post on the Rollie 400S and Rodinal thread in the Bill Pierce section.

Seems like I had to unwind some confusion about Diafine and my Rollie 400S testing.

I feel really good that Rollie 400S looks to be great as a 50 ISO film pulled.
I think Diafine 3+3 with two inversions will really nail it.

My hope is that I can get Rollie 400S to do 160 ISO with Microphen.

This would allow 50 ISO and 160 ISO shooting mucho cheap.

Cal

rather 100 since range is from 100-400 for Pan 200S named Agfa-film. ( i am currently checking this out with Maco since there was/is a real Pan 400S)

 

[europanorama]

Totally wrong Rollie 400S, AKA Agfa Aviphot 200

Totally wrong Rollie 400S, AKA Agfa Aviphot 200

I have been busy testing Rollie 400S, AKA Agfa Aviphot 200.

Further testing with Diafine 4+4, but with some piston action by using a 120 reel instead of a 220 reel did not improve the Bromide Drag artifacts in what should of been a nearly cloudless sunny blue sky. I did verify that the film speed that was optimum was only 50 ISO. Too bad because Diafine is reusable without any replenishment so the cost of developer is basically almost free.

I figured out that Rollie 400S is really a fine grain low speed film in reality. Diafine usually gives me a nice 2/3rds stop in film speed, except with Acros which I shoot at box speed (100 ISO). In this regard so far Rollie 400S is somewhat like Acros in being fine grained.

So I tried Rodinal 1:50 for 11 minutes. This time I got off of the MDC listed under Agfa Aviphot 200, but they rated the ISO at 200. In my testing I got the best tonality at 50 ISO under cloudy overcast conditions. Perhaps under sunny conditions I would rate 400S at 80 ISO for less contrast under brighter conditions.

BTW these negatives have a density optimized for wet printing and not scanning (slightly more exposure for denser negatives and more shadow detail).

The Rodinal 1:50 made some truely great negatives that display large format tonality, they have that Rodinal acutance and sharpness, and the compensating effect really brought out the mids. Very highly detailed and small grain.

I used my non daylight Nikor tank and a 15 foot reel to find out that I need 2 liters of solution to cover just one 15 foot 70mm reel. For two 15 footers a gallon of developer is required. Anyways Rodinal is cheap and affordable as a one shot, but the film speed is low. Looks like a magic combination using an Agfa developer on a rebranded Agfa film. The IQ is mucho high. Rodinal is mucho cheap if one is considering a one shot developer.

Next test will be trying to get a film speed over 100 ISO with perhaps Microphen. Dan's use of Acufine makes a lot of sense for two reasons: Acufine can be replenished; and Acufine is a strong active developer. Seems like Rollie 400S likes/requires a strong active developer. I think Jan and others are correct: Agfa Aviphot/Rollie 400S is really a 80-100 ISO film.

On another thread Jan reports of only being able to achieve 160 ISO with some German active push developer. If I'm able to get 125 or 160 ISO I will be mucho happy.

Cal

Rollei Retro 400S
Superpan 200 is Pan 200
" Agfa Aviphot/Rollie 400S is really a 80-100 ISO film."

I MUST REVISE ALL NAMINGs ABOUT THE RETRO 400S BEING 200S BUT I WILL ASK MACO ONE NEVER KNOWS.
there was a real 400S beside 200S(i have it also PEO)see here:
Aviphot Pan 400S PE1 (Discontinued) and PE0: High speed, low fog, fine grain panchromatic negative film with extended NIR sensitivity for low to medium altitude flights. Suitable for poor light conditions. Average gradient variation between 0.6 and 1.1