f16sunshine
Moderator
How are you folks dealing with the RAW files of the xpro 1 when it comes to dialing in blue. In particular sky blue.
The RAW images are coming in quite heavy in a Cyan cast. It takes a fair bit more knob twiddling than I care to do. Not that I'm lazy but it has the potential to throw other colors out of wack.
The following is a comparison between the Eos 5Dii mounted with a CV Apo Lanthar 90mm f3.5.
The Xpro1 had the XF 60mm mounted.
90mm shot at 3.5 wide open... 60mm shot at f3.6.
It was full strong mid day sun at sea level. White Balance set to 5500k in Aperture3.5
The 5Dii RAW is quite reasonably accurate and true to life.
The first two Converted to jpeg no adjustments otherwise.
xpro1 w/60mm at 3.6
5dii w 90mm at 3.5
Edited shots in Aperture in a non sientific effort to match images.
5Dii image trimmed to 16MP. The minor effect of some magenta in the sky is actually more true to life than not. Some humidity in the air may have an influence. Maybe 5500k is a poor choice for WB.
Xpro1 image blue sky adjusted for hue, saturation, and luminance. The ble tones become mono "blocky".
Xpro1
5dii
The RAW images are coming in quite heavy in a Cyan cast. It takes a fair bit more knob twiddling than I care to do. Not that I'm lazy but it has the potential to throw other colors out of wack.
The following is a comparison between the Eos 5Dii mounted with a CV Apo Lanthar 90mm f3.5.
The Xpro1 had the XF 60mm mounted.
90mm shot at 3.5 wide open... 60mm shot at f3.6.
It was full strong mid day sun at sea level. White Balance set to 5500k in Aperture3.5
The 5Dii RAW is quite reasonably accurate and true to life.
The first two Converted to jpeg no adjustments otherwise.
xpro1 w/60mm at 3.6
5dii w 90mm at 3.5
Edited shots in Aperture in a non sientific effort to match images.
5Dii image trimmed to 16MP. The minor effect of some magenta in the sky is actually more true to life than not. Some humidity in the air may have an influence. Maybe 5500k is a poor choice for WB.
Xpro1 image blue sky adjusted for hue, saturation, and luminance. The ble tones become mono "blocky".
Xpro1
5dii
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Are you using a UV filter on the lens?
f16sunshine
Moderator
Yes
Both lenses have B+W UV filters installed. Please excuse the omission.
Both lenses have B+W UV filters installed. Please excuse the omission.
irq506
just curious
Which B+W version?
f16sunshine
Moderator
UV Haze MRC type filter.. It's a UV does it matter ?
I've come to trust the MRC filters as the premium ones from B+W. I understand they have fancier lines now but... I've used these for years.
On my screen your first XPro1 shot is the most attractive, with clear bright greens and a nice sky-blue sky. Well, maybe a faint hint of cyan. The others have more red/magenta than I like, dulling the greens and letting the sky go slightly violet. Could just be my screen, a calibrated 27" iMac.
MaxElmar
Well-known
Yeah. I vote for #1 as well. I would probably hit it with the "poor man's polarizer" (as Thom Hogan calls it) - using the HSL sliders to bring the luminance down ("blue" and "aqua")and move the hue towards blue. The others are going purple - pretty typical "warm-tone" for Canon. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Evidently, some folks prefer it. To me, those yellowing Canon plants are half dead. I would rather tweak the sky than kill the plants.
What I just described doesn't do much of anything to the other colors. Watch the shadows don't get too blue.
Or maybe just use a real polarizer.
I should mention that my screen is a calibrated 27" Apple thunderbolt display.
What I just described doesn't do much of anything to the other colors. Watch the shadows don't get too blue.
Or maybe just use a real polarizer.
I should mention that my screen is a calibrated 27" Apple thunderbolt display.
Highway 61
Revisited
The same : I like #1 the better, has just a tiny amount of cyan to be removed (and a bit amount of yellow too).
#2 is nice as well. The two last ones are way too red/magenta.
Between #1 and #2, I'd say it's merely a matter or personal taste afterall.
Try to achieve something balanced between #1 and #2.
Perfectly calibrated screen here.
#2 is nice as well. The two last ones are way too red/magenta.
Between #1 and #2, I'd say it's merely a matter or personal taste afterall.
Try to achieve something balanced between #1 and #2.
Perfectly calibrated screen here.
v_roma
Well-known
On my screen, #2 has too much red/magenta for my taste. I see the cyan in #1 as well but still find it better than #2.
gavinlg
Veteran
I'm not sure about how apertures color adjustments work, but in lightroom I boosted hue to the purple end of the spectrum +20 and then upped the luminance of the blue channel +20 and it looks perfect. The blue is far too saturated and 'heavy' in both.
Kwesi
Well-known
Hi Andy,
Try increasing the Vibrance slider in either lightroom or camera raw. It will move the cyan sky more towards a natural blue saturating only the cyan and also add depth to your whole image by slightly darkening the cyan shadows in the foliage.
The other colors in your image will not be affected.
Hope that gets you closer to what you envisioned
Try increasing the Vibrance slider in either lightroom or camera raw. It will move the cyan sky more towards a natural blue saturating only the cyan and also add depth to your whole image by slightly darkening the cyan shadows in the foliage.
The other colors in your image will not be affected.
Hope that gets you closer to what you envisioned
f16sunshine
Moderator
Thank you all for your comments.
I should mention that this image was taken in my backyard. This was just to be a quick snapshot I took with the Xpro1.
When I saw the color issue I pulled out the 5Dii to see how it rendered the scene.
I was able to actually make a direct comparison to my screen and the actual live scene.
The 5D colors are very close to accurate. Yesterday was a transition weather day and there was indeed a magenta tinge in the sky (our sunset was like a blazing fire a few hours later).
My question is. Are others finding this cyan sky issue. Looking back at some older images I'm seeing more cyan. Not on a witch hunt here just looking to see if others are having this experience and how you handle it if you do.
This is a small jpeg converted with an early version of LR so, it's from those troubled days of RAW conversion...but you get the idea.
I should mention that this image was taken in my backyard. This was just to be a quick snapshot I took with the Xpro1.
When I saw the color issue I pulled out the 5Dii to see how it rendered the scene.
I was able to actually make a direct comparison to my screen and the actual live scene.
The 5D colors are very close to accurate. Yesterday was a transition weather day and there was indeed a magenta tinge in the sky (our sunset was like a blazing fire a few hours later).
My question is. Are others finding this cyan sky issue. Looking back at some older images I'm seeing more cyan. Not on a witch hunt here just looking to see if others are having this experience and how you handle it if you do.
This is a small jpeg converted with an early version of LR so, it's from those troubled days of RAW conversion...but you get the idea.
Kwesi
Well-known
Can't say that I have. My default profile is Provia.
Ranchu
Veteran
This is the way the camera renders color...? I don't know what else to say, if you want it different you'll have to use a different camera. It's long standing propaganda from software sellers and everyone that gets their paycheck from the photo industry that you can magically use software to change anything into anything.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Here is the RAW file 6508 from the xpro1 in Dropbox. Take a look and see for yourself if you think this is a correct rendering of Blue.
As taken the WB was 6044KB chosen by the AWB in camera. The files I posted above where both set to 5500k before converting to jpeg.
And Here is the Canon RAW 6945. WB in camera was set to 5800k via AWB.
I'm neither a Fuji apologist or a Fanboy. The Cameras and system are great and I'm far from considering abandoning the Xtrans but! ... this Xtrans business is far from being at the head of the pack when it comes to colors.
The Canon is not perfect either but it is at least more neutral and manipulatable with 3rd party existing software (plus for comparison...it's the only other digital I have to mount a mid tele on to).
As taken the WB was 6044KB chosen by the AWB in camera. The files I posted above where both set to 5500k before converting to jpeg.
And Here is the Canon RAW 6945. WB in camera was set to 5800k via AWB.
I'm neither a Fuji apologist or a Fanboy. The Cameras and system are great and I'm far from considering abandoning the Xtrans but! ... this Xtrans business is far from being at the head of the pack when it comes to colors.
The Canon is not perfect either but it is at least more neutral and manipulatable with 3rd party existing software (plus for comparison...it's the only other digital I have to mount a mid tele on to).
Ranchu
Veteran
I'm not implying anything about YOU! : ) You're in the same boat as the rest of us. The WB doesn't matter, it's the spectral transmission of the blue filters in the sensor that determine how they look, and the red and green filters too. Then the location of the 'primaries' assumed by the raw converter. Remember the software is based only on a model of color, and there's a lot of error in this model (the model all software and cameras use, I mean).
f16sunshine
Moderator
No worries Ranchu. I know you are not directing your comments toward me.
I just want to make myself clear. I'm brand agnostic and yet.. eXtremely hopeful for this Fuji system.
I just don't know how many years it will take before some of these flaws are solved.
I only use the cameras for color results with very few conversions to B+W.
Hopefully some day very soon the colors will be as they really are.
Kwesi
Well-known
No worries Ranchu. I know you are not directing your comments toward me.
I just want to make myself clear. I'm brand agnostic and yet.. eXtremely hopeful for this Fuji system.
I just don't know how many years it will take before some of these flaws are solved.
I only use the cameras for color results with very few conversions to B+W.
Hopefully some day very soon the colors will be as they really are.
Given that everyone is so impressed with how well fuji listens, perhaps it's time for us to start asking for better XTrans support for fuji. I mean the sensor array is their baby. Who better to demosaic it? At the very least an XTrans to DNG converter.
Kwesi
Well-known
One thing you haven't mentioned is your raw converter and wether the cyan sky is present with other lenses
f16sunshine
Moderator
Exactly!
And that is the point of a thread like this.
First to discover if there is indeed a system issue or if it's user error (me un this case) or something else.
The RAW is the Raw. This problem starts there.
I'll try and do an in camera raw conversion later and see what comes out.