A CLAed Fed-2 won't work properly

[tho60]

Hello!
Following the instructions found on the Internet, I have repaired my Fed-2 camera. However, the pictures did not succeed; an overall low contrast and blurred objects occurred. Before shooting I have checked the camera with CRT tester and groundglass projection at 2.24 m distance. CRT test showed a very slight unparallelism; I thought it could not affect the pictures. I cleaned and relubed the gears and drums and supposedly fixed the earlier mentioned problems.
Groundglass projection certified that both of my J-9s were absolutely on spot, but with a normal lens there were some discrepancy. The same results repeated with a Zorki-4 body, so I meant it did not matter; it was due the camera construction. (I was very happy and overjoyed that Jupiter-9 lenses were collimated properly!) I used a Lunasix-F exposure meter, so I marvelled at overall underexposure. I cannot explain the low contrast as well. Lens hood was fitted.

Knowing these, what might have been happened?

 

[Valkir1987]

Dear Tho60

Well, it indeed looks like underexposure or a very much flaring lens. What film did you use? A cheap color film that went through an exhausted developer, won't give good negatives. I had really disappointing (comparable) results due to bad developtment from shops that used expired chemicals.

The parralax on your groundglass needs to be absolutely free at infinity and 1m, use a magnifier/loupe.

With kind regards,


M Schekkerman

 

[Roger Hicks]

Restored to original condition, then...

Seriously, I'm not a camera repairer, so I'm never too surprised if I run into a camera repair I can't do or understand. You're out of your depth; so am I; and so is 99.99% of the internet.

Even so, as already suggested, I'd be suspicious about the film and processing in your situation.

Cheers,

R.

 

[btaylor541]

There may be several things happening here. A portion of the frame (especially noticable on pic 3, right side) does appear to be out of focus. That would indicate possibly that the lens mount is not parallel with the film plane. Unless you have a particular reason to think that your Lunasix-F meter is accurate I would not asume that it is. Low contrast, muddy images can be a result of underexposure. Poor processing perhaps, who knows? You don't know how accurate the shutter is either. I think you will need to do a lot more testing. Shooting some test targets would help, as well as a set of exposure tests.

 

[tho60]

lightmeter

lightmeter

There may be several things happening here. A portion of the frame (especially noticable on pic 3, right side) does appear to be out of focus. That would indicate possibly that the lens mount is not parallel with the film plane. Unless you have a particular reason to think that your Lunasix-F meter is accurate I would not asume that it is. Low contrast, muddy images can be a result of underexposure. Poor processing perhaps, who knows? You don't know how accurate the shutter is either. I think you will need to do a lot more testing. Shooting some test targets would help, as well as a set of exposure tests.

Why do you suspect that my Lunasix has gone wrong? I have not used it intensively (I usually estimate the exposure), so cannot confirm, whether it is good or not.😕 It would be a big problem if it worked improperly! It costed a lot!

 

[Coldkennels]

Why do you suspect that my Lunasix has gone wrong? I have not used it intensively (I usually estimate the exposure), so cannot confirm, whether it is good or not.😕 It would be a big problem if it worked improperly! It costed a lot!

The problem is that there's so many variables involved, and unless you're completely certain about each and every one, you have to assume that any one of them could be the problem.

Light meters, unfortunately, are quite difficult to test. You either use them and see (in which case you're relying on the notion that everything else - shutter speed, development, film - is working properly), you compare them to another light meter (which could also be wrong) or you trust your judgement (which, again, could be wrong).

My suggestion would be to shoot the same type of film from the same batch in a different camera using the same light meter and get it developed in the same place. If that comes out looking okay, then you know the problem's with either the camera or the lens, and either the shutter's running slow or the lens isn't particularly good; shooting another roll from the same batch through the Fed 2 and changing the lens half-way through the roll (I assume you have a standard 50mm, too?) will then see if the lens(es) are the problem.

One other thing to bear in mind: What hood do you have on the Jupiter 9? As it's an 85mm lens, a standard lens hood for a 50mm lens will be too short and may well have no effect.

 

[wolves3012]

I tend to agree with the others, you have too many variables and unknowns in the equation to know what went wrong.

Use a decent quality film and a reputable processor and shoot some proper test-shots, use a tripod too. I'd also bracket my exposures and keep the lens wide-open for critical focus. Try things like the classic brick-wall shot, on an evenly-lit face and also try lens-chart shots, if you can find some and print them out at a good resolution.

You need to be methodical and eliminate as many variables as possible. As for the meter, firstly, is it calibrated (recently)? If not, it's an unknown - costly or not! Even if calibrated, it will only give an accurate exposure for grey-scale charts. Anything else needs some "interpretation", which is why so many people don't meter (I do, I'm hopeless at guessing!)

 

[btaylor541]

I have found that a quick and dirty lightmeter check is to use the "Sunny 16" rule and see if they match. That will at least catch gross errors. Lightmeters need regular service and calibration if you expect to count on them, whether they are cheap or expensive. I try always to have 2 meters with me, so I can do a quick comparison should I suspect something may be wrong. I also find that an iPhone lightmeter app is useful to have, as I will always have that with me to double check my usual meter.

I google focus and resolution charts and print them out, costs next to nothing and they will give you a world of critical information. Bracket exposures and place charts in front and behind your target to find which direction focus errors occur. A DoP friend found that shooting charts at 3 meters is a good overall mid-point-- accuracy at 3m usually indicates focus accuracy over the entire mid- range. An infinity check should be made as well.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I have found that a quick and dirty lightmeter check is to use the "Sunny 16" rule and see if they match. That will at least catch gross errors. Lightmeters need regular service and calibration if you expect to count on them, whether they are cheap or expensive. I try always to have 2 meters with me, so I can do a quick comparison should I suspect something may be wrong. I also find that an iPhone lightmeter app is useful to have, as I will always have that with me to double check my usual meter.

I google focus and resolution charts and print them out, costs next to nothing and they will give you a world of critical information. Bracket exposures and place charts in front and behind your target to find which direction focus errors occur. A DoP friend found that shooting charts at 3 meters is a good overall mid-point-- accuracy at 3m usually indicates focus accuracy over the entire mid- range. An infinity check should be made as well.

Sorry, disagree completely. Checking, yes. Calibration, no. Servicing, almost never. I must own at least a dozen meters, maybe two dozen (bear in mind I've been in the business for decades), and (for example) I once found three Weston II/III meters within 1/6 stop off one another, all of them over 30 years old.

The only checking a meter needs is that it gets your exposures right. Of course that requires good film, good processing and good printing, but without that, no meter is worth anything.

Yes, a meter may drift over the years. Drift with it! The drift is almost always very slow, and usally trivial. Garry Coward-Williams (ex-editor of AP) and I often discussed how remarkable it is that even though meters don't always agree, most people can get perfect exposures from their favourite meter. the simple, underlying truth is that once you stop having absolute faith in the meter, and start having faith iin yourself, the vast majority of meters are fine.

Cheers,

R.

 

[David Hughes]

I think that the condition of meters, like anything else second-hand - even a Leica M, are a matter of luck. I've a Weston II that worked OK straight off of the market stall and another (from the purchase of an entire studio) that needed work done on it.

Age also comes into it, the mid 30's stuff I've got needs a bit of work done and then you get problems as the modern cell material is far more sensitive. I'm using a x4 ND filter with my 30's Leicameter to get the direct reading corrected...

And here it is, a nice and useful piece of design.

Regards, David

 

[btaylor541]

Sorry, disagree completely. Checking, yes. Calibration, no. Servicing, almost never. I must own at least a dozen meters, maybe two dozen (bear in mind I've been in the business for decades), and (for example) I once found three Weston II/III meters within 1/6 stop off one another, all of them over 30 years old.

Then I must say you have been very fortunate. That has not been my experience, and poorly exposed film has been the result.

I come out of a motion picture background where calibration, testing and adjustment are constant tasks. There is too much effort and money riding on each piece of the puzzle to have a "surprise." Personally, my comfort level goes way up when my gear has been serviced by competent repair people and tested by me before I use it. But that's me. Everyone's different.

 

[acheyj]

Ignoring the focus issues etc I see two things.
1. The uneven exposure left to right looks like the second curtain is running a bit fast, image in the camera is of course inverted and swapped .
2. Under exposed , if the meter is ok then 1st curtain too fast, just adjust the asa rating, saves endless trial and error with the curtain tension.
I have been having similar problems with a couple of FSU cameras for this dammed FSU contest I foolishly succumed to, had the same flat negs. When I did a test exposing 1 to 2 stops over it all came good, pretty obvious really when I looked at the negs, (Zorki 1 and a CLAd Kiev 4a).

Cheers

ron

 

[tho60]

thanks

thanks

Dear Buddies!
You are really kind. Many thanks for your comments and advices. I will follow your tips.
But, I do not know what has happened. I tested the camera before shooting and did not notice the failures. I might have had setback, the camera was on strike. As if FSU cameras were live beeings- sometimes they feel like working, sometimes not, without any notice. Nowadays, I am dogged by ill fortune with my cameras. My Zorki-1 and Zorki-4 as well stopped operating; the first one suffered from light leaks when I changed the lenses, the second one was stricken by capping and shutter holes. Each camera was tested before shooting, yet these problems occurred.
Have you ever experienced such a problem when a camera sometimes worked well, but sometimes not and you could not get the hang of the causes? Some gremlins may pull your legs!

 

[Valkir1987]

Have you ever experienced such a problem when a camera sometimes worked well, but sometimes not and you could not get the hang of the causes? Some gremlins may pull your legs!

I almost find the cause of the problem, but that is some experience. There where many camera's that caused me a headache to find the cause of a problem. Our brains alway's bring us back to search problems in area's we've already been. But that's not the cause of the problem mostly.

Maybe you should save some money, and send your Fed 2 to a decent repair person with your compliants about the focus and exposure. Also sent one of the negatives. At some point you may consider the fact you want to use a good checked camera, or the fact you want to persist in fixing camera's like me and end up having to many of them spending time repairing and fixing for fun 🙂

 

[tho60]

Hello Buddies!

I have done with a test roll for comparison. Everything was the same, but the camera. Results are impressing: the CLA has been failed, the film and lightmeter were correct. Checking again my Fed-2 with a CRT tester, I noticed that the shutter won’t open properly at 1/500 s. Other speeds seemed to be O.K, but I suppose that this is not the case. I tested my Fed-2 before the first shooting-it worked right; yet after shooting the mentioned problems occurred!
So, I have to start a more thorough repair again!