bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
First, I must apologize for the newbie postings and the 'hand-holding' that I am asking for in this endeavor, but I just want to make sure that I'm headed in the right direction.
I am wanting to dip my toes into 4x5 LF, and not sink too much money into it at the outset. If I find it's not an artistic approach that works for me, I don't want to have invested lots of money.
Many people have recommended the Crown Graphic or Speed Graphic series as a beginner model. Currently, there's lots of Graflex models on FleaBay, and I came across this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Nice-Grafl...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=4629467983065841195
Any thoughts? The lens is a bit wider than what I'd like, but I'm sure it's more than functional for my purposes.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
I am wanting to dip my toes into 4x5 LF, and not sink too much money into it at the outset. If I find it's not an artistic approach that works for me, I don't want to have invested lots of money.
Many people have recommended the Crown Graphic or Speed Graphic series as a beginner model. Currently, there's lots of Graflex models on FleaBay, and I came across this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Nice-Grafl...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=4629467983065841195
Any thoughts? The lens is a bit wider than what I'd like, but I'm sure it's more than functional for my purposes.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
ChrisN
Striving
Nice camera, but that one is a 6x9 (2 1/4 x 3 1/4 inch negative) model, not 4x5. They look very similar. I'd hold out for a basic Crown Graphic without the flash, which would be cheaper. You'll want about 5 to 6 film holders too. Great camera to start with in 4x5 - good luck!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
It might be worth putting an add in the 'wanted to buy' over at the large format photography forum ... I really don't trust ebay sorry based an a personally low hit rate for camers that were 100% functional.
If you're serious about dipping your toes into LF that forum has a wealth of knowledge and any question I've ever asked over there was answered politely and quickly and they treat newbies very well from my experience.
I was lucky ... I picked up a Crown Graphic from a member who's a regular here though from memory the camera was advertised at the LF Forum and FrankS, (one of or mods) who knew I wanted one, directed me there. I think I paid around $350.00 with a swag of film holders and while I don't use it all the time I find myself returning to it when I need an LF fix!
If you're serious about dipping your toes into LF that forum has a wealth of knowledge and any question I've ever asked over there was answered politely and quickly and they treat newbies very well from my experience.
I was lucky ... I picked up a Crown Graphic from a member who's a regular here though from memory the camera was advertised at the LF Forum and FrankS, (one of or mods) who knew I wanted one, directed me there. I think I paid around $350.00 with a swag of film holders and while I don't use it all the time I find myself returning to it when I need an LF fix!
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Opinions vary about Graphics. One camp says "You don't need lots of movements, so a Graphic is great." The other (in which I sit) says "You don't have to use all the movements that are there, but you can't use the movements that aren't there." For an overview of movements (and indeed of cameras) you may care to look at
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera movements.html
Cheers,
R.
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera movements.html
Cheers,
R.
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maddoc
... likes film again.
For some years now I was interested into 4x5 but since none of my (photographer-) friends were shooting LF (or had the spare time to teach me the basics) it took me until recently to get my first 4x5, a Linhof Technika IV for a reasonable price. Luckily, after having moved to Tokyo, a local friend a) spotted the camera for me and b) took the time to advice me in what things are important, what not and where to get the necessary bits for cheap.
That friend told me a couple of tricks (for example using an used old $5 Polaroid 545 holder for Fuji Quickloads), saving me a lot of time and money.
So far it a lot of fun (I have shot 4 sheets already within one week) but I am glad that I could rely on somebody`s help who has earned a living using 4x5 cameras.
That friend told me a couple of tricks (for example using an used old $5 Polaroid 545 holder for Fuji Quickloads), saving me a lot of time and money.
So far it a lot of fun (I have shot 4 sheets already within one week) but I am glad that I could rely on somebody`s help who has earned a living using 4x5 cameras.
ornate_wrasse
Moderator
The only problem is that they don't allow new members access to the classified ads for 30 days. So, unless he's already a member, it won't work. Of course, he can join the forum and wait for 30 days.
I am very impressed by that forum and its members. One of the members offered to let me borrow his camera for a Large Format class I was taking. I had never met the person before. Not only did he let me borrow the camera (which I sill have) but he took the time to give me a lesson on using it.
I admit that after seeing my first large format negatives, I may actually want to purchase a camera for myself. I'm leaning, though, towards a Shen Hao 4x5 or a Chamonix 4x5.
Ellen
BillBingham2
Registered User
The Crown is a fine camera to dip your toes into LF photography. As pointed out above that one is a 6x9. While on the larger size of MF, really a pain to get sheet film for these days (at least it was a few years back).
With cameras of that age coming from Evilbay be ready to plunk doing some cash for a CLA. I agree that it's much better to purchase from someone who has used it and you feel comfortable from.
B2 (;->
With cameras of that age coming from Evilbay be ready to plunk doing some cash for a CLA. I agree that it's much better to purchase from someone who has used it and you feel comfortable from.
B2 (;->
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Yes, I am familiar with the large format photography website, but alas I have only been a member for a couple of weeks. I have not hit the trustworthy 30 day mark yet.
I suppose I'll just be patient and wait. It seems the LF website is an excellent resource, and I might have more success finding an appropriate model there.
BTW thanks to everyone for their comments -- especially ChrisN ... I had no idea that was a 6x9! I really should have looked closer at the details.
I suppose I'll just be patient and wait. It seems the LF website is an excellent resource, and I might have more success finding an appropriate model there.
BTW thanks to everyone for their comments -- especially ChrisN ... I had no idea that was a 6x9! I really should have looked closer at the details.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Half the people selling Crowns are greedy grave-robber descendants of real photographers so they don't know anything and wouldn't tell you even if they did.
You want a late model top rangefinder Graflex Crown Graphic with a 135mm Optar/Xenar/Ektar lens, a stack of 4x5 holders, an $8 loupe, a moderate tripod, etc.
You want a late model top rangefinder Graflex Crown Graphic with a 135mm Optar/Xenar/Ektar lens, a stack of 4x5 holders, an $8 loupe, a moderate tripod, etc.
venchka
Veteran
Listen to Frank. Be patient. Wait the rest of the 30 days. Do your homework. When the time arrives to shop at the Large Format Forum you will have a better idea of what you need as opposed to what you want.
How will you develop the film? How will you print? A light tight box, lens, film & holder is only the tip of the iceberg.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Wise words. I will be patient.
In terms of developing, I already do my own 35mm & 120/220 ... I have done a few sheets of 4x5 in a tall Paterson tank from a pinhole camera that I made earlier this year. Yes, not the most elegant solution, but it worked.
I would like to avoid getting an enlarger, I just don't have the room to set one up. But now this leads me down the path of contact prints. And 5x7 is looking better all the time...
In terms of developing, I already do my own 35mm & 120/220 ... I have done a few sheets of 4x5 in a tall Paterson tank from a pinhole camera that I made earlier this year. Yes, not the most elegant solution, but it worked.
I would like to avoid getting an enlarger, I just don't have the room to set one up. But now this leads me down the path of contact prints. And 5x7 is looking better all the time...
ChrisN
Striving
... And 5x7 is looking better all the time...
Talk to Frank! (Frank Petronio, above.) He had some 5x7 gear for sale recently.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I sold it, 5x7 is a great size but the film is twice as expensive. Especially at the learning stage, keep things cheap!
I'm a scan and inkjet guy but nice 4x5 Beselers and Omega (or better) enlargers come up nearly for free these days. The ones from private individuals are usually flawless, the schools "not so much". I'd pay more attention to the condition of the enlarger lenses considering many lived in basements for years.
I'm a scan and inkjet guy but nice 4x5 Beselers and Omega (or better) enlargers come up nearly for free these days. The ones from private individuals are usually flawless, the schools "not so much". I'd pay more attention to the condition of the enlarger lenses considering many lived in basements for years.
venchka
Veteran
If you decide to go the scan/inkjet route. Many of us with less than ideal accomadations do that. Be careful when shopping for a scanner for 4x5. Many scanners are limited to 35mm or medium format and they can't be changed.
I own an Epson 1680 and friends have newer 4990 & V700/V750. All do a great job with 4x5.
I own an Epson 1680 and friends have newer 4990 & V700/V750. All do a great job with 4x5.
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khc1013
Anthony
I want to see the images!!!
For some years now I was interested into 4x5 but since none of my (photographer-) friends were shooting LF (or had the spare time to teach me the basics) it took me until recently to get my first 4x5, a Linhof Technika IV for a reasonable price. Luckily, after having moved to Tokyo, a local friend a) spotted the camera for me and b) took the time to advice me in what things are important, what not and where to get the necessary bits for cheap.
That friend told me a couple of tricks (for example using an used old $5 Polaroid 545 holder for Fuji Quickloads), saving me a lot of time and money.
So far it a lot of fun (I have shot 4 sheets already within one week) but I am glad that I could rely on somebody`s help who has earned a living using 4x5 cameras.
ethics_gradient
Well-known
The nice thing about film cameras is that prices have pretty much bottomed out; provided you don't overpay, you'll be able to sell the camera for around what you paid if you decide it's not for you. I'd do my homework with regards to price (searching completed auctions on eBay is a great tool) and be patient.
Depending on what you're shooting (and how far you're carrying the camera!), you can pick up an old 4x5 monorail for very cheap as well. All the movements you could want, although the downside is they generally weigh 10+ pounds.
Personally I hate tray developing (don't have a real darkroom, just a small windowless bathroom) and got a Combi-Plan Tank, which does 6 sheets at once in daylight. There are also the BTZS tubes, which are nice for doing them one at a time. For color, I send everything out to Samy's in California: can't really beat $1.50/sheet for 4x5 C-41.
Depending on what you're shooting (and how far you're carrying the camera!), you can pick up an old 4x5 monorail for very cheap as well. All the movements you could want, although the downside is they generally weigh 10+ pounds.
Personally I hate tray developing (don't have a real darkroom, just a small windowless bathroom) and got a Combi-Plan Tank, which does 6 sheets at once in daylight. There are also the BTZS tubes, which are nice for doing them one at a time. For color, I send everything out to Samy's in California: can't really beat $1.50/sheet for 4x5 C-41.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The best addition I've made to my Crown Graphic occasional LF habit so far has been a Paterson Orbital developer. It'll process four negatives in 150ml of solution, gives perfectly even development and is a breeze to use once you learn the routine.
Probably the best seventy dollars I've spent and my Combi Plan (leak-omatic) hasn't moved from the shelf since getting it!
Probably the best seventy dollars I've spent and my Combi Plan (leak-omatic) hasn't moved from the shelf since getting it!
maddoc
... likes film again.
I want to see the images!!!
.... just started and nothing special but here are three ...
All three of them were taken using Fuji 100ACROS Quickloads and developed in Rodinal, scanned with an Epson V700.
JohnTF
Veteran
I spotted a very clean 4x5 Crown Graphic, but without lens, sitting on Igor's table at the Richfield show, you might email him to see if he still has it.
The Crowns with the top RF seem to be the ones folks want these days. This one had no flash bracket screwed on, which made it even cleaner, if that matters.
In areas of the country they sell fairly high, and around here, (Northern Ohio), they often go very cheaply.
Campus Camera in Kent is another good source, -- you might just make the rounds via telephone and see if something is sitting around with your name on it. ;-) Ask for Danny.
Regards, John
The Crowns with the top RF seem to be the ones folks want these days. This one had no flash bracket screwed on, which made it even cleaner, if that matters.
In areas of the country they sell fairly high, and around here, (Northern Ohio), they often go very cheaply.
Campus Camera in Kent is another good source, -- you might just make the rounds via telephone and see if something is sitting around with your name on it. ;-) Ask for Danny.
Regards, John
Brian Legge
Veteran
If anyone in the Seattle area has one of those free 4x5s, let me know. I only shoot up to 6x6 right now but know it's only a matter of time.
I only shoot up to 6x6 right now but know it's only a matter of time.