A Different $15,000 Question.....not gear

[Godfrey]

It’s ‘funny’, it sounds like a lot of money until you think about an M11 and a lens - not two…

According to the Tamarkin.com website:

Leica M11 in black paint or silver chrome $8,995
28 Summaron-M f5,6 $3,095
50 Summicron-M f2 $2,895
That's $14,985.00 before tax and shipping. And it's a fine kit.

... And you can save at least half that money by buying a used M10-R or M10-M, and used lenses from them.
Which is what I'd do (have done)... That leaves enough of the $15000 to go on a nice, long trip to somewhere special with your camera. 😀

G

 

[sojournerphoto]

Ok

According to the Tamarkin.com website:

Leica M11 in black paint or silver chrome $8,995
28 Summaron-M f5,6 $3,095
50 Summicron-M f2 $2,895
That's $14,985.00 before tax and shipping. And it's a fine kit.

... And you can save at least half that money by buying a used M10-R or M10-M, and used lenses from them.
Which is what I'd do (have done)... That leaves enough of the $15000 to go on a nice, long trip to somewhere special with your camera. 😀

G

over in the UK that $15,000 is around GBP12,000, so M11P 8,000 leaves 4,000 which will buy a 50 summilux with no change🙂

 

[Godfrey]

Different countries, different market prices. And you choose the more expensive M11P model body and the more expensive Summilux 50 over what I listed...

"You makes your choices and you pays your money." 😀

I made my choices and paid for the (new)M10-M, (used)M10-R, (used)Summicron-M 50, and (used)Summaron-M 28 some time ago. I have no regrets whatsoever. And all four of them together didn't quite cost me $15,000.

G

 

[sojournerphoto]

Different countries, different market prices. And you choose the more expensive M11P model body and the more expensive Summilux 50 over what I listed...

"You makes your choices and you pays your money." 😀

I made my choices and paid for the (new)M10-M, (used)M10-R, (used)Summicron-M 50, and (used)Summaron-M 28 some time ago. I have no regrets whatsoever. And all four of them together didn't quite cost me $15,000.

G

You’re right, but I did look and couldn’t quite put together a 1 body 2 lens package with any M11 new in the UK.

Agree, you do do this buying used and my M11P was (barely) used, but discounted none the less.

 

[Godfrey]

Yes: my Summaron-M 28 was technically used, but untouched in the box, and marked Made in Portugal rather than Made in Germany, for a substantial discount over new. And my Leica M10-R was "Leica refurbished" and needed to go back to them to have the rangefinder re-collimated and re-calibrated, otherwise as new without a mark on it. The Summicron-M 50 was also "Leica refurbished". All three of these were a significant savings... I leave buying new gear like this to those with deeper pockets than I. 🙂

The dealer (Tamarkin) is my primary Leica supplier and I've been dealing with them for over 30 years, since before Dan took it over from his father, Stan. 😀

At least with current US pricing you can put together a new M11 and two new Leica lenses kit for under $15000 ... but just barely, and you won't pay sales tax or shipping without going a bit over. Such it is.

G

 

[Ororaro]

Funny no one has proposed a Voigtlander lens, yet.

 

[sojournerphoto]

Funny no one has proposed a Voigtlander lens, yet.

That’s because Leica lenses are conversation pieces and Voigtlander are for using, although even that purpose is being supplanted by lenses from China 😉

 

[Archiver]

It’s ‘funny’, it sounds like a lot of money until you think about an M11 and a lens - not two…

In Australia, the M11 retails for $14,999 AUD. Sooooo that leaves $1 which doesn't even buy a lens cap, let alone a lens. The M11-P costs $15,390. Street price of the M11 is around $14,600.

A secondhand M10 in Australia goes for $7000-7300. A secondhand M9 or M240 is around $5000.

 

[Godfrey]

Funny no one has proposed a Voigtlander lens, yet.

Cosina makes very nice lenses using the Voigtländer brand name, for sure. I have four at present ... 10mm f/5.6, 21mm f/3.5, 28mm f/3.5, 50mm f/2.5 ... have had them a while. They definitely all have great build quality and make lovely photos. But when people engage in "fantasy desire" notions and are fond of Leicas ... well, the Leica M bodies come and go, but it's the Leica lenses that are the real objects of desire to most users IMO.

G

 

[Archiver]

Cosina makes very nice lenses using the Voigtländer brand name, for sure. I have four at present ... 10mm f/5.6, 21mm f/3.5, 28mm f/3.5, 50mm f/2.5 ... have had them a while. They definitely all have great build quality and make lovely photos. But when people engage in "fantasy desire" notions and are fond of Leicas ... well, the Leica M bodies come and go, but it's the Leica lenses that are the real objects of desire to most users IMO.

G

I'm about 50/50 on bodies/lenses in the Leica systems. My M9 is still my favourite after 14 years, but I'd love a SL2S or SL3 to have an autofocus Leica body that is also compatible with M lenses. The Zeiss Distagon 35 is my favourite M lens and I have no desire for a FLE 35 or Summicron M 35, while the rest of my M lenses are a mix of Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander. I lust for some R lenses, including the 21, 35/2, 50/2, 90 and 100 Macro for the video possibilities, but I also want to build a set of Contax Zeiss and Zeiss Classic.

 

[Godfrey]

I'm about 50/50 on bodies/lenses in the Leica systems. My M9 is still my favourite after 14 years, but I'd love a SL2S or SL3 to have an autofocus Leica body that is also compatible with M lenses. The Zeiss Distagon 35 is my favourite M lens and I have no desire for a FLE 35 or Summicron M 35, while the rest of my M lenses are a mix of Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander. I lust for some R lenses, including the 21, 35/2, 50/2, 90 and 100 Macro for the video possibilities, but I also want to build a set of Contax Zeiss and Zeiss Classic.

Just shows how different individual tastes can be. I won't bore you with listing all the Stuff I have ... I've had too much over the past 50+ years ... but I'm quite happy with what I have now (it's a mix of Leica M/R, and Voigt, and other, lenses; M10-M/-R and M4-2 bodies).

The key now is not gear but getting off my buttocks and making some new photos. The pandemic slammed my world down hard, and then the health crap in spring 2023, and then the car that hit me in Fall 2023 ... it all nearly put me in a box. Now, finally, I feel almost like myself again and it's time to get out making photos.

What photos I make ... will likely be different, again, as Time and Life have their way of changing vision and perspectives. I look forward to seeing what my eyes see. 😀

G

 

[Jonathan R]

I’d buy a couple of prints by HCB and Josef Koudelka that never fail to entrance me, then I’d give the rest away.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'd guess most of us here have more gear than we need. Spinning off Benjamin Marks' question "What gear would you buy with a $15,000 gift?"
I'd ask, "How would you best use a gift of $15,000 USD, to further your photographic dreams......without buying equipment?"

It might not hurt for me to become better acquainted with the larger creative world, whether I seek commercial and critical success or not. And to continue practicing an appreciation for the world of right-here-right-now, nothing-special, because there's so much of it. To put it another way, if I can't create meaningful photos in my immediate surroundings, how can I expect to fare better in a faraway locale?

Monetary cost: I don't know: In some cases, selective subtracting might be good too: For example, there's much clickbait-y stuff online, and like junk food, is best if consumed in moderation, if at all.

How's about this: A comfy place with good lighting for reading, photographing, evaluating prints, listening to music, watching movies, and reading in bed. I wonder if some locales have better creative scenes than others, because they've got a more optimal mixture of education / sophistication and affordability?

 

[stephen_lumsden]

If I have to forgo equipment I would simply buy as much film with dev and scanning, probably for the rest of my life. I like developing but am sure others could do it better.

 

[Godfrey]

I'd guess most of us here have more gear than we need. Spinning off Benjamin Marks' question "What gear would you buy with a $15,000 gift?"
I'd ask, "How would you best use a gift of $15,000 USD, to further your photographic dreams......without buying equipment?"

Answering the original Q: I'd use the money to pay for travel and the other expenses of doing photography—I have two lifetimes worth of gear in the closet already. 😎

G

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I wonder if some locales have better creative scenes than others, because they've got a more optimal mixture of education / sophistication and affordability?

I would be very leery of "creative scenes". Fourteen years ago, we moved to New Mexico, and I greatly anticipated participating in the art scene in Santa Fe. Then I encountered the reality: "educated" and "sophisticated" poseurs who know the price of everything, and the value of nothing (to quote the great Oscar Wilde). Eventually, living in a very rural, very impoverished, and very redneck area became the real stimulus to take my work, and my outlook, to a higher level of engagement and empathy. Small-scale, struggling cattle ranchers don't have too much time for creative scenes, but they can teach you a whole lot about life.

 

[boojum]

I would be very leery of "creative scenes". Fourteen years ago, we moved to New Mexico, and I greatly anticipated participating in the art scene in Santa Fe. Then I encountered the reality: "educated" and "sophisticated" poseurs who know the price of everything, and the value of nothing (to quote the great Oscar Wilde). Eventually, living in a very rural, very impoverished, and very redneck area became the real stimulus to take my work, and my outlook, to a higher level of engagement and empathy. Small-scale, struggling cattle ranchers don't have too much time for creative scenes, but they can teach you a whole lot about life.

We have a mix in my town, Astoria, OR. Those "initiates" of the upper echelons of art and culture are long on talk and short on do. This is ordinary. OTOH the folks down the hill from me who risk their lives out there on the Pacific pulling food up out of the ocean have no attitude. They are decent folk. I am "almost known" on the waterfront here and recognized by some. They take me for what I am, a harmless old fool with a camera and let me bang away. I suppose they are not quite sure why I am taking the pictures of what seems to them so mundane an event.

This is a repost of two crewmen off a fishing boat, the Muir Milach, which had been out for months fishing for hake. True, they come in to offload catch but go right out again. But this is these guy's first stretch your legs on dry land in two months. And they are starting it right, with cigars.

B0001472 by West Phalia, on Flickr​

 

[DownUnder]

Answering the original Q: I'd use the money to pay for travel and the other expenses of doing photography—I have two lifetimes worth of gear in the closet already. 😎

G

If we stop long enough to take stock of the equipment we already have - I could put all mine together and open a secondhand photo shop. I've been steadily downsizing since I retired in 2012, with a mega sale every few years to clear the cameras and lenses I no longer use and don't intend to. Yet the gear still grows and grows, as if it multiplies by itself in the night...

Later this year my collection of Rollei TLRs will go. I bought them all new from 1966 and I've treasured them (and used them), but in this all-digi age and given my own age they no longer suit. My Nikon DSLRs and now and then a Nikkormat or Contax G film camera, but all the more so the sad reality that film and darkroom supplies in Australia are now far too expensive for me.

Ditto my Leica iif kit (a iig, four lenses, a small box of accessories, all Leitz branded of course) which I put together after I bought the camera from a friend's deceased estate and a kind neighbor gifted me his long-unused collapsible Summicron 50/2.0. I used it for a few years as a now and then shooter but it now sits in my camera cabinet and I reckon it's time for it to go to someone who will not only cherish it but use it. Ditto the Rolleis, the multi-exposure kits, filters and other F&H bits alone which may well pay for a few of my airfares and hotel expenses in Asia.

Since 2012 I've offloaded Hasselblads, my film Nikons, most of my Nikkormats, various brand lenses and such off-bits as a mint Fuji GA645i. I bought it all at reasonable prices so I've made a little profit, and I've used all that gear but age is catching up, and I must start thinking about clearing the home nest before I'm too old, too tired, or too disinterested to do all that work.

Many of us are in this situation, I think. In our 70s downsizing is the way. So that fifteen grand would be useful to me but more so as an enhancement to my photography (= travel) and not for new gear - unless I decided to jettison my hoard of Nikon DSLRs and go with one kit. Now if a good Leica Q2 or Q3 were to turn up with my Melbourne secondhand dealer...

 

[boojum]

I, too, have way more gear than I need. I have some old but good Leicas, M8.2, M9 and M240, and a bunch of lenses for them, none Leica, and almost all very good. And the sweet X2D and XCD 55V. The X2D will wear Sonnars using the full sensor which is nice as I have some very nice old Sonnars. What I need is talent. And the time to use it.

 

[Archiver]

How's about this: A comfy place with good lighting for reading, photographing, evaluating prints, listening to music, watching movies, and reading in bed.

This sounds wonderful, and prompts me to think in a different direction regarding my living space. I tend to think of rooms in terms of general purpose rather than specific activities. There are any number of IG accounts which show delightful and cosy hifi rooms with shelves filled with records, and home libraries ranging from Ikea shelving to bespoke built in cabinetry.

Right now, I'm imagining a study/gallery room with lots of shelving space with books, and camera gear artfully arranged but ready for use. Lighting can be dialed up or down depending on the activity, with tiny warm downlamps over the book cases and standing lamps in the corners of the room. Maybe some wall space for prints, and a table to hold whatever books take the fancy. Perhaps a section of shelving would house a small stereo setup, like a digital source and receiver/amp, or a turntable, or both! A big armchair or two, perhaps a small couch with throw rugs and cushions, and maybe an Eames chair! And while we're at it, a drinks cabinet with carefully selected liqueurs, heavy crystal tumblers and shot glasses.