A digital P&S for indoor kids photos

[jonasv]

Dear all,

A friend of mine curently has a Canon Powershot A550. Outdoors everything is fine but she's really dissappointed because it's very hard to take pictures indoors. She'd also like a wider angle of view. As she's going to give birth in some time, she's looking for a better camera to record those precious moments.

So here's what she needs, but I don't know what P&S would fit the bill:

- A lens that starts at a wide-angle (24-28mm)
- Some optical zoom (not necessarily over the equivalent of 100mm tele, she won't shoot sports or birds)
- Fast lens (f/2-ish at the wide end)
- Reasonable high ISO performance (1600 ok, 3200 useable?)
- A small camera
- Not too complex - or with good auto settings, she's no expert and does not want to be

She said max € 400-500, less being better...

The camera store pointed us to the Nikon P310 and the Canon S100, but I'm not sure it these would be all THAT much better than her current A550 (dated 2007)?

Thanks for any help!

 

[doolittle]

Panasonic LX5 or Canon S100 would be a fair improvement over the 550..though not sure any of those small sensor cameras will be good over ISO 800. Check out sample photos on www.pixel-peeper.com. Maybe a lower priced m4/3 camera or a Nikon J1?

 

[matt_mcg2]

As per the previous comment, I don't think anyone really makes a compact good above ISO 800 without going to m4/3 or similar. I have an Olympus XZ-1 which has a great lens [probably best in class], wide aperture at both ends of the zoom range. Excellent colour, good user interface. Downside, I wouldn't use it at much above ISO 400 as it gets a bit noisy and the noise reduction in jpeg [not RAW] mode is a bit smeary. Although the lens is fast enough, and stabilisation good enough, that I find ISO 250 or so is fine indoors. RAW image quality is very good.

Indoors, f2.2 [ISO 100, as it wasn't that dark]

 

[raid]

The Olympus EPL-1 is on sale for $150 at Cameta Camera. It has built-in IS, so no fast lens is needed indoors. Get the 14-42 zoom for an extra $50 as a set with the EPL-1. This $200 set is hard to beat.

 

[lynnb]

Keep in mind that high ISO performance and a fast lens are important for enabling higher shutter speeds to freeze moving children in low light. IS is great if they're static enough to use a slow shutter speed, but it won't help you to freeze action.
Also consider focus speed and accuracy, and face-detect. And video! Sometimes moments really call for video.
Generally, newer-generation sensor cameras have better high ISO performance, faster focus, and better video. Is the new Sony RX100 within your budget? That has a large sensor (for a digicam-size camera), fast lens, fast focus with face-detect, and very good high ISO. I've had a play with one, and came away impressed. It has full auto modes for users like your friend.
I use a LX-series Panasonic for the same purpose - smaller sensor, 24-90mm fast lens, reasonably fast focus (not in DSLR territory but good enough), good flash, excellent video. The LX5 should be discounted now due to the release of the LX7.
Suggest you read the group test (LX5, S95, Coolpix), keeping in mind these are last-generation models - which might still be available and therefore more affordable.
As your friend is likely to be shooting JPEG rather than RAW, I'd look at ISO 1600 JPEG samples in the image comparison tool at dpreview and other places. Some cameras are much better at preserving detail as they apply noise reduction at higher ISO.

 

[raid]

Thank you for the link, Lynn.

 

[lynnb]

Larger sensor cameras like the EPL-1 Raid mentioned outperform newer generation small-sensor digicams (like the ones I mentioned above) at higher ISOs, due to the larger sensors and sensels. Suggest you compare here and insert the EPL-1 into the comparison tool. I did that and the EPL1 clearly outperforms the LX5, S95/S100 and Coolpix. Raid's suggestion sounds excellent - particularly at the price!

 

[raid]

The EPL-1 has a built-in flash, and it takes great videos. Put on it a Canon FD 50/1.4 (cheap) via an adapter (cheap) , and you have a 100mm 1.4 lens to catch photos of the kids.

 

[jonasv]

Thanks Doolittle, Matt, Raid and Lynn!

From the compacts, I knew the S100 stood out, but I wasn't too familiar with larger-sensor-offerings. That EPL-1 certainly stands out. I'll look into it!

 

[bugmenot]

How about the new Sony RX100? By all accounts, it nearly matches cropped DSLR image quality,
and it has received near universal praise from every corner of the photography world and consumer electronics world. 😀

I'd say give that a chance if you are looking for something that doesn't require a bag to carry around. 🙂

It is about $200 more expensive than S100, Olympus XZ-1, and Panasonic LX5/7, but the price difference is entirely justified.

 

[jonasv]

The RX-100 looks great, but it's twice as expensive (€ 650 over here) as an S100.

The biggest downside to the E-PL1 + 14-42mm is the lack of a wide aperture in that kit. I understand the high ISO is better, but the lens is slow. Under the same lighting, I'm not sure the E-PL1 at f/3.5 and ISO 3200 will outperform something like a Coolpix P310 at f/1.8 and ISO 800.

Well, there is no such thing as free lunch of course. I guess I'll see how she feels about RX-100 money.

 

[jonasv]

I might have to look further into the Fuji X10? At € 470 it's almost € 200 cheaper than the RX100 and within budget.

Fast lens even at the long end of the lens (good for indoor portraits) and OK higher ISO performance. Perhaps a bit big and a quirky interface.

 

[bugmenot]

I might have to look further into the Fuji X10? At € 470 it's almost € 200 cheaper than the RX100 and within budget.

Fast lens even at the long end of the lens (good for indoor portraits) and OK higher ISO performance. Perhaps a bit big and a quirky interface.

The X10 is indeed quirky, and rather on the large side when it comes to point and shoots.

All the options here are really excellent:

Sony RX-100
Canon S100
Panasonic LX5/LX7
Olympus XZ-1
Fujifilm X10

And of course those are all the premium point and shoot cameras. The main reason the price of the rest are lower than the Sony RX100 is most likely because they have all been released for over 9 months now. If budget was not an issue, the RX100 is without doubt the best option, since it is the compromise between quality and size. It also offers arguably the best image quality out of the bunch.

If you decide to go the interchangeable lens mirror-less path, the micro4/3rds are probably your best option (since NEX lenses are huge, even though that would have been my recommendation).

 

[matt_mcg2]

In my experience, virtually no compact camera has fast enough autofocus [possible exception, the Nikon J1/V1?], combined with a fast enough lens and good enough high ISO performance to really capture high quality _sharp_ images of rapidly moving subjects on low light. That challenges a dSLR. So everything is going to be a compromise. For me, personally, I find it easier to manual or zone focus in those situations [hence rangefinders 🙂] but any of the high end premium point and shoots should produce decent quality images allowing for the fact that focusing and high ISO isn't going to match the very best non-compact cameras.

 

[konicaman]

Good high ISO performance, fast AF - and small? Not easy. I would go with an EOS 1100d/Rebel T3 and the standard kit lens. No it is not that small, but run with full auto all the other criteria are met. And it is rather light weight for a dSLR - and within the price range. Just a thought...

 

[gilpen123]

I would also suggest an RX100 which is very good indoors as it can handle lowlight very well and fast focusing. Another alternative will be the GRD4.